Earlier quoted context omitted.
Because the west and especially the US has, very specifically, a fascism problem.
It looks like your account has been using HN primarily for ideological battle. Can you please not do that? It's against the rules here because it destroys the curious conversation that HN is supposed to exist for. We ban accounts that do this, regardless of what their ideology happens to be. See [1] for more explanation. If you wouldn't mind reviewing https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and taking the in…
A backlash against gender ideology is starting in universities
771–780 of 1001 posts
Re: A backlash against gender ideology is starting in universities
#772Earlier quoted context omitted.
I'll add onto this, if people are genuinely worried about invasive surgery, the policing of trans identity is counterproductive to addressing that concern. What would be productive is allowing kids to use different pronouns, allowing them to dress themselves the way they wish and allowing them to seek affirmative care and affirmative communities -- so that they can explore their own gender identity without feeling li…
> What would be productive is allowing kids to use different pronouns The debate is not about whether somebody can use a pronoun. It’s whether everyone else is compelled to use it as well. It’s the difference between positive and negative rights - whether you have the right to compel others to behave a certain way vs whether you have the right to behave a certain way yourself. Legally compelled speech creates a real…
If someone required me to chant "Chocolate is god" whenever I enter their home, and my refusal to do so is a punishable / jailable offense, then that is a massive breach of my own rights to control my own speech.
I would probably choose to no longer spend time with those people if they felt they could compell (or more accurately, coerce) me to speak a certain way.
The same applies to identity, given that immediate obvious biological traits are present that can be used to infer a person's identity, and if asked to refer to them as something different, to respect that as long as the request is as respectful as me asking someone to do me a small favor.
Anything beyond that is toxic, purely from an emotional/verbal abuse lens.
Re: A backlash against gender ideology is starting in universities
#773Earlier quoted context omitted.
TERF is a pejorative term, I wouldn’t use it unless you are trying to attack feminists.
Those who are called TERFs are feminists in name only. The vast majority of self-described feminists don't agree with the TERF platform.
Feminism covers a range of thoughts or beliefs, to promote advocacy.
Re: A backlash against gender ideology is starting in universities
#774This is obvious, but it is at the crux of every debate that is happening surrounding transgender people and so I really think people are struggling with the definitions. Or, more likely, it is all ideological lines in the sand.
Can trans women compete in women’s sports? Well, why do women’s sports exist in the first place? They exist because there are phisological differences between males and females that render competition unfair in most all athletic contests. Each college and pro sports would be dominated by one sex. Most sports would be exclusively male, though gymnastics would likely be female dominated. If gender is fluid anyone could switch between the two at any time.
Will people do this? Probably not.
Will suddenly trans women take over womens’s sports if allowed? No. Almost certainly not, but it does kind of beg the question of why the category exists at all.
People should be able to be themselves and do what they want as long as they aren’t infringing on others rights. And trans people are most certainly included in that. However, some people feel that transwomen are infringing upon women’s rights laws such as title ix. The answer to that lies in the question of are sports divided by gender or sex. If by gender every gender, of which there are many, would have equal claim to the same rights under title ix. This would be an impossible requirement to fill. The intention of the law was always to be divided by sex, not gender, even if historically we, as a society, have used the terms interchangeably.
Re: A backlash against gender ideology is starting in universities
#775Earlier quoted context omitted.
Certainly I am finding it very difficult to be heard. As a member of the trans community I’ve tried to be kind and helpful in my comments in this thread but I’m getting downvoted to hell. I just really want people in this thread to learn about emotional labor and to consider what they’re asking of marginalized people when they want to “discuss” the validity of their needs.
Trans people are a hot button issue these days but it feels like we don’t really have a seat at the table in that debate. The healthiest thing you can do for yourself is just live your life, surround yourself with people who make you feel safe, valued and loved, and stop trying to convince random strangers online that you’re worth something. I take a lot of inspiration from the ball room / drag culture - how it creat…
When I entered this discussion, the top comment on the article was talking about how trans people freak out when you just bring up the issue of one trans women in sports and try to “have a discussion”.
And it’s just like… I cannot leave that as the top comment and not say something. I mean, I could leave it, but I have to decide which is more upsetting - saying nothing or trying to engage and being shot down. We deserve better than that as the top comment on a thread about us.
Really glad dang stepped in and remoderated some comments.
Re: A backlash against gender ideology is starting in universities
#776Earlier quoted context omitted.
That is hard to say. In a world full of discrimination against trans folks, who knows how many people who would prefer being trans have failed to be identified? But the topic is much bigger than that. You see, the ideology being pushed says that everyone who has gender dysphoria should be assumed to be trans. But a LOT of teenagers, particularly girls, go through a period of gender dysphoria when they hit puberty. Wh…
>> "and well-meaning attempts at gender reassignment surgery for them" This isn't actually a thing. Certain factions who would prefer trans people cease to exist push this idea that kids are on this hot new meme of getting their bits flipped before reaching the age of consent, but it is simply not a thing. No top surgery, either. It just isn't a thing. It's a wild fantasy. The only thing kids can go on are puberty bl…
They can also go on testosterone injections here in the UK, not sure about US.
Re: A backlash against gender ideology is starting in universities
#777Earlier quoted context omitted.
I don't think that is what commenter is saying. I, personally, of course defer to nicknames and pronouns. I think it is more similar to race-blind versus race-conscious policies - along with gender-blind versus gernder-concious. Is it better to assume that men and women are pretty much the same in academia and each are capable of the same thing? Or is it better to assume that men and women are intrinsically better at…
It's certainly consistent. Worldview happens as a result of experiences - if ones biological sex and/or gender is used as a reason to allow or deny certain experiences to someone, then maybe it affects their worldview, no? This is different than whether the gating on biological sex makes sense. (Note I don't mean strictly mechanical stuff like peeing your name into the snow, I'm talking about things like teachers "no…
However, what happens if this is completely eliminated and there are still discrepancies in grades, degrees, income? Many would say then that the subject matter is tilted towards men or women and needs to be reformed. Those who argue that position are arguing for gender conscious policy. Which is definitely not the same as gender neutral policy (which was the most popular 15 years ago when I was in school - but things seem to be shifting towards more conscious policy)
Re: A backlash against gender ideology is starting in universities
#778Earlier quoted context omitted.
This is a wonderfully nuanced thread on the subject from a trans woman in her thirties: https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1385411504669790208.html Edit: I just noticed the original poster already converted this into a longform post, so the "reader app" version isn't really necessary https://liminalwarmth.com/the-hard-thing-about-hard-things-m...
It's also important noting, semi-related to your post, that nobody is pushing for trans-surgeries for teenagers -- they are pushing for puberty blockers . What this means is that puberty is medically halted until the teenager is a legal age, when they will be able to decide which puberty they want. This avoids a lot of dysphoria-provoking secondary sexual characteristics from progressing, and also avoids accidentally…
> How can there be any emphatically-cogent argument…?
Because drugging little kids should be a last resort. Using big words doesn't change the need to be extremely cautious in doing something as serious as blocking puberty.
Re: A backlash against gender ideology is starting in universities
#779Earlier quoted context omitted.
I'll add onto this, if people are genuinely worried about invasive surgery, the policing of trans identity is counterproductive to addressing that concern. What would be productive is allowing kids to use different pronouns, allowing them to dress themselves the way they wish and allowing them to seek affirmative care and affirmative communities -- so that they can explore their own gender identity without feeling li…
> What would be productive is allowing kids to use different pronouns The debate is not about whether somebody can use a pronoun. It’s whether everyone else is compelled to use it as well. It’s the difference between positive and negative rights - whether you have the right to compel others to behave a certain way vs whether you have the right to behave a certain way yourself. Legally compelled speech creates a real…
That's not really what I was getting at, what I was getting at is that creating an environment where people refuse to use proper pronouns or provide even basic accommodation for trans kids is going to make them more interested in medically transitioning, not less.
If you're a kid, and you suspect you might be a girl, and everyone around you is refusing to use pronouns because you don't look like a girl... it wouldn't be unbelievable for that situation to increase your risk of body dysphoria, because everyone around you is telling you you'll never be a girl until you look enough like one.
It can be someone's right to avoid referring to people by their proper pronouns, but I don't believe them if they turn around and say they're doing it to protect the kids from rash decisions about transitioning. Making kids feel safer and more accepted is how you protect them from rash decisions. Making them feel like you respect them and their identity is how you encourage them to seek outside advice and to be open about their doubts about their own gender.
> if people are genuinely worried about invasive surgery, the policing of trans identity is counterproductive to addressing that concern.
Re: A backlash against gender ideology is starting in universities
#780Earlier quoted context omitted.
Yeah, my legal name is "Michael". If I asked you to call me "Mike" is that really such a pain for you?
If I asked you to call me "Your Majesty" and bow your head every time (only slightly, tho), would it really be such a pain to you?