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A backlash against gender ideology is starting in universities

economist.com

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Re: A backlash against gender ideology is starting in universities

#681

Post by eloff »

jolux wrote: post #451
btilly wrote: post #370

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is hard to say. In a world full of discrimination against trans folks, who knows how many people who would prefer being trans have failed to be identified? But the topic is much bigger than that. You see, the ideology being pushed says that everyone who has gender dysphoria should be assumed to be trans. But a LOT of teenagers, particularly girls, go through a period of gender dysphoria when they hit puberty. Wh…

> What little research exists on the topic says that most of those girls will grow out of their gender dysphoria, and well-meaning attempts at gender reassignment surgery for them will backfire. This is frequently claimed but is untrue, or at the very least highly uncertain. The studies most often referenced have serious methodological errors, including inconsistent definitions of dysphoria (owing partially to proble…

The fact that it spreads inside friend circles should be all it takes to defeat the idea that it is based on some fundamental internal gender dysphoria. It's more akin to a social meme.

In not saying that applies to all cases, but definitely a good number of them among young people, especially girls.

Re: A backlash against gender ideology is starting in universities

#682

Post by apocolyps6 »

hackinthebochs wrote: post #553
millzlane wrote: post #383

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In academic discourse, there is no consensus on whether or not TERF constitutes a slur. But if we want to be accommodating to those who take offense with the term, we can use the term Gender Critical.

>In academic discourse, there is no consensus on whether or not TERF constitutes a slur. All you have to do is look at how the term is used in the wild to determine if its a slur. Anyone who can claim it isn't is being disingenuous.

> All you have to do is look at how the term is used

By that logic, is "white supremacist" (or racist) a slur? I see it used in just about the same way.

Re: A backlash against gender ideology is starting in universities

#683

Post by tylerchr »

colechristensen wrote: post #490
umvi wrote: post #229

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You can notice this in a few fields of popular ideologies these days, that is overcorrecting for a problem to the point of becoming exactly the thing one was originally fighting against. I've noticed this too, it's not only gender ideology but racial ideology and more. Seems to be form of ideological "pilot-induced oscillation"[0] [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pilot-induced_oscillation "[Pilot-induced oscillati…

And the mechanism of this oscillation is people joining and leaving a movement. In the beginning the radical idea is a basic kind of equality where some kind of person shouldn't be disadvantaged for some characteristic. There is then a growth phase where many people join and small specific victories turn into general victories. There is then a shrinking phase where people leave the movement or lose zeal as general vi…

Did you get this framework from somewhere you can refer me to? It’s facially intriguing and I’d like to see it more fully explored.

Re: A backlash against gender ideology is starting in universities

#684

Post by munk-a »

MontyCarloHall wrote: post #250
saxonww wrote: post #196

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The idea is that sex and gender are different though; gender _is_ a social construct. I think lack of agreement on this is a big part of the issue right now. Edit: as pointed out below, gender roles are something we've made up, but preferences and behavior themselves (which we're calling gender) are not. Still separate from sex.

Certain gender roles are social constructs, but gender as a whole cannot be a social construct because gender dysphoria exists. A transgender person’s gender identity is hardwired (and opposite of their genetic sex and outward sex characteristics), which is strong evidence that gender is an innate physiological characteristic. It’s likely something neurological, since trans people’s obvious physiological characterist…

Although gender is not a binary concept. I honestly do think that gender is mostly a social construct but our definition of what it is is much better than it used to be - sterile men and barren women would often be considered outside of standard gender definitions since they couldn't "fulfill the intended role".

I have problems on this front though, I'm pan myself and gender seems really insanely trivial to me - I do understand that my experience is not the common one though.

Re: A backlash against gender ideology is starting in universities

#685

Post by omegaworks »

hackinthebochs wrote: post #601
notahacker wrote: post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fear of rape or pressurised sex amongst prisoners is perfectly real, but if a tiny minority of transpeople are a distant third in terms of sexual threat to female prisoners behind male warders and natal females and a campaign organization proposes rehousing transpeople (all 125 of them) in different prisons as their solution to prison rape over better safeguarding practises or single occupant cells which might offer…

>but if a tiny minority of transpeople are a distant third Here's the problem I have with this line of defense: it doesn't accommodate the reality of self-id and the likely downstream effects if it becomes the accepted norm. If all it takes for a male to be housed in a female prison is a checkmark on a form, we should expect that many cis-men will take advantage of the situation, thus creating a very real threat of a…

>all it took was a declaration to be housed in a female prison

That's not at all what it takes.

>Imagine how many abusers would take advantage of that circumstance?

Imagine how many abusers already take advantage of the power they already have over women in women's prisons. That the real problem of sexual violence is focused and framed wholly and entirely on trans women is exactly the point made by the parent: this is an entirely disingenuous effort by people wholly uninterested in actually preventing the real, existing, non-imagined abuses in women's prisons and more interested in enforcing a strict gender binary that harms both cis and trans women.

Re: A backlash against gender ideology is starting in universities

#686

Post by bostonvaulter2 »

TimTheTinker wrote: post #230
smoldesu wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This was ironically one of the things that was hardest about coming out as gay, for me. Nobody ever treated me the same way again. I was either uncomfortably praised or silently judged, with practically no in-between. Suffice to say, my sexuality is on a need-to-know basis, now.

It's weird to me that sexuality and identity are so intertwined. Why should someone "come out" as anything? (I know a lot of people "come out" as various things in a mere bid for attention... I'll leave that issue aside.) If I knew someone casually for a while who never talked about his/her sexuality, but one day they said "I never said this before, but I'm a heterosexual", I'd certainly feel awkward about it. Why di…

> To take it further, why phrase it "I am ..." instead of "I have ... desires"? If the latter sounds awkward, why is the former any less awkward?

I definitely agree on this point, and what I find fascinating is that in my (albeit very limited) knowledge of French, instead of saying a phrase like "I am hungry", you say "j'ai faim", which has the literal translation of "I have hunger".

https://www.wordhippo.com/what-is/the/french-word-for-9a6e76...

Re: A backlash against gender ideology is starting in universities

#688

Post by AIX2ESXI »

About freaking time, this has been way overdue. The ability to offend is to critically think. If you have cannot handle dissenting opinions or facts, this invalidates your movement or ideology. So that is why many are silenced. Academia is full of those who stifle others for power...

Re: A backlash against gender ideology is starting in universities

#689

Post by meragrin_ »

eropple wrote: post #628
meragrin_ wrote: post #396

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> predatory trans women How about predatory men pretending to be trans-women?

If you're going to hypothesize, doesn't it obligate you to substantiate the claim? Are predatory men pretending to be transwomen a problem on any statistically noticeable level?

I'm not hypothesizing anything. I'm pointing out that "someone who's biologically male in the women's room" doesn't have to mean "predatory trans-woman" but could be "predatory man pretending to be trans".

Re: A backlash against gender ideology is starting in universities

#690

Post by 9wzYQbTYsAIc »

blindmute wrote: post #629
deadite wrote: post #319

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Interestingly enough, there's not much animosity toward trans-men. These ground exclusively concern themselves with trans-women. I second this. Maybe it's some echo chamber effect or a minority stirring shit up, but I've hardly heard anything over the years about transmen-as-men vs men-as-men. It seems like most of the focus is on transwomen-as-women vs women-as-women. Maybe we're not as vocal? Maybe we care less? I…

It's because there is no reason to have animosity toward a woman becoming a man. The main objections to MtF are about safety (a MtF will always be stronger and bigger than a woman on average) and fairness (should male born people get female scholarships, compete in women's sports?). A FtM is not hurting anything or taking any opportunities away from anyone really.

You are making broad statements about the prevalence of psychological attitudes in the general public.

Do you have an academic citation to back up your assertions?

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