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Is education no longer the ‘great equalizer’?

nytimes.com

371–380 of 548 posts

Re: Is education no longer the ‘great equalizer’?

#371

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We do all of that in Canada, for 3K per student less AND get much better results (at least on average).

Probably can be attributed to huge asian and south asian immigrant population who put a very big emphasis on education in their families

Your theory doesn't explain Quebec scoring so high¹ in math in the 2018 PISA² test.

https://www.schoolofpublicpolicy.sk.ca/research/publications...

https://www.oecd.org/pisa/PISA-results_ENGLISH.png

Re: Is education no longer the ‘great equalizer’?

#372

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As per the source I linked: the rich captured all the gains and failed to increase everyone else’s pay to even match inflation.

As per the source, the rich are paid in stock, and they made more because stocks grew in value. You're making it sound like a scheme when it's a paycheck. Everyone in the US is free to convert all of their money into stock whenever they like. The reason the CEOs get paid in stock to to tie their compensation to the value of the company, not to disenfranchise the poor.

You are not free to convert money you need to live into stocks.

Re: Is education no longer the ‘great equalizer’?

#373
post #202
post #196

Education is worthless if there are no opportunities. In Argentina, there are PhDs as cab drivers. Opportunities are correlated to how well authorities run the country. There is some data trying to pinpoint relationships with other factors: GDP, corruption, and religion, etc. https://m-g-h.medium.com/in-data-we-trust-2978dacc8c22

I looked through your link and apart from a handful of sources linking to random Guardian articles and Wikipedia it didn't actually cite the source it used as it's central claim and then proceeded with rather disjointed points each poorly supported and ended with some sort of vague platitude about how we need to look at data despute never actually making a conclusion.

The conclusion is that there might be a correlation between a country's culture, largely shaped by its majority religion, to its GDP over time. It is too complex to explain so the article is just an inquiry into an overlooked factor, often ignored by economists.

Re: Is education no longer the ‘great equalizer’?

#374
post #334

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even here on HN I've seen "looking to hire" posts where they basically come out and say they will only consider people from elite colleges and universities. It's hard to see stuff like that, so blatant, and not conclude there's a signaling-networking phenomenon going on. It comes up in other things I've seen too, where I know some idea has been floated over and over again by various groups, and then some deal is anno…

Those posts give me the sense that those companies are looking for investors (the rich parents) rather than somebody to do work

Google famously only hired people with elite education credentials in the beginning.

"We also didn't want to hire anyone from what were considered lesser universities" Eric Schmidt https://youtu.be/hcRxFRgNpns?t=1756

Re: Is education no longer the ‘great equalizer’?

#375
post #344
post #332

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Moving to areas with "good schools" is one. Only schools where wealthy people live get good funding, so when they concentrate where they live to one place, everywhere else suffers

The US has some of the best-funded public schools in the world and some of the worst outcomes in public schools. “Funding” is a red herring at best and an excuse for extractive politics in reality. It turns out that life outcomes have approximately nothing whatsoever to do with how much money your childhood schools got. It also strikes me as quite perverse to blame people who are able to move their children out of sc…

I live in a median income neighborhood that is next to a low income neighborhood. The school is funded just fine, and we passed a local bond measure to ensure the school could build and grow. The student population is pretty mixed. The only thing holding this school back is the people that run it. I moved my kids to private school so they could actually get an education instead of just a babysitter.

Re: Is education no longer the ‘great equalizer’?

#376
post #339

The oligarchs have been working to detroy the middle class for a long time now (see the Norman Dodd interview or The Leipzig Connection), and education is a key piece of that work, because it truly can be a great equalizer. You will notice not just different curriculum, but entirely different methods being used at a posh place for the elite like Eton, vs a (US) public school or even most upper middle class private sc…

You’re making the same exact mistake that education activists have made for the last 60 years. Education does not significantly improve outcomes. Period. What people observe is that people who went to top-tier schools end up being very successful, and make the (totally false) inference that top-tier schools make you successful. In reality, the people who were almost certainly going to be successful anyway get into th…

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/elitism-in-britain-2019

Re: Is education no longer the ‘great equalizer’?

#377
post #337

A lot of people here need to talk to some entrepreneurs. It doesn't matter how good, or how well funded, the school system is: if the family is poor, you're not going to be able to float rent on the storefront you need, or purchase initial inventory of whatever you're making, much less soak up a few false starts, much less take out a bank loan to do any of these things. Period. This does not in ANY WAY mean there sho…

As always, the easiest way to be successful is to be born in a successful family

The best way to make a small fortune is to start with a large one.

And then buy a boat.

Re: Is education no longer the ‘great equalizer’?

#378

The oligarchs have been working to detroy the middle class for a long time now (see the Norman Dodd interview or The Leipzig Connection), and education is a key piece of that work, because it truly can be a great equalizer. You will notice not just different curriculum, but entirely different methods being used at a posh place for the elite like Eton, vs a (US) public school or even most upper middle class private sc…

I won't dispute the existence of class war (though I don't think it's about "middle class" and more about "working class" and I don't think this process is deliberate, more systemic).... But I would quibble about the role education content plays. Canada doesn't have the same kind of tiered education system that the US has. Public schools are funded out of pooled revenue not local taxes for example so poor neighbourho…

I disagree strongly about curriculum. Just to give an example, here is an exerpt about the language curriculum at Eton from a modern (90s) graduate:

"Everyone must learn Latin and French for the first two years. Most boys have studied Latin and French for a couple of years before they arrive at the school. The cleverer boys also do Ancient Greek. There are many more languages offered besides these ones. The additional foreign languages are Russian, Spanish, German. Chinese, Japanese, Italian and Arabic. Those who are not good at languages need do only French and Latin." - Calers (1)

To me this is just one of a myriad of examples that highlight the kind of difference in actual education curriculum between the oligarchs and the rest of us. I would argue much of this is about quality of life instead of "success outcomes", and generally about having a strong liberal arts background being a key component of ANY education worth anything. Which is also why I strongly disagree with those who advocate for sending students straight to vocational schools, and that whole general line of reasoning, for example.

How many of your referenced founders and investors knew Latin and French before the age of 13?

1. https://gcalers.wordpress.com/2014/11/06/what-makes-eton-so-...

Re: Is education no longer the ‘great equalizer’?

#379
post #196

Education is worthless if there are no opportunities. In Argentina, there are PhDs as cab drivers. Opportunities are correlated to how well authorities run the country. There is some data trying to pinpoint relationships with other factors: GDP, corruption, and religion, etc. https://m-g-h.medium.com/in-data-we-trust-2978dacc8c22

In Finland, a suburban pizza entrepreneur was called a doctor, because he had a PhD in nuclear physics from Iran.

Re: Is education no longer the ‘great equalizer’?

#380

A lot of people here need to talk to some entrepreneurs. It doesn't matter how good, or how well funded, the school system is: if the family is poor, you're not going to be able to float rent on the storefront you need, or purchase initial inventory of whatever you're making, much less soak up a few false starts, much less take out a bank loan to do any of these things. Period. This does not in ANY WAY mean there sho…

Agreed. Bill Gates was smart, but:

1) He had access to a computer via his prep school in 1968. This is way ahead of the vast majority of people in the world. Money bought him 5-10 years of advance knowledge.

2) Gates' mother had direct access to the IBM CEO

3) Gates' father could cut a sudden check to the tune of $50,000 to back his son's business venture

Kildall was just as smart as Gates, but didn't have the advantages.

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