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A backlash against gender ideology is starting in universities

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Re: A backlash against gender ideology is starting in universities

#511
post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

CIS (as born) women may also have (traditional) male-like traits. If you separate people by traits in prison, then why separate based on trans-ness alone? For example, large women are more likely to rape small women in prison simply because they can. If you separate based on such risks, then separate large women from small women also; why focus on just trans? Many prisons already separate by ethnic group simply to ke…

> "Regular" women The word you're looking for is "cis".

I like the term "natal women/men".

Re: A backlash against gender ideology is starting in universities

#512

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Enforced group-think is going to be the death of these universities." How?

By expunging, shaming, expelling, disinviting, cancelling, eschewing, not offering positions, denying grants, avoiding publication, demoting those that don't meet the requirements of a radical orthodoxy. Noam Chomsky of all people (!), and a bunch of other staunchly centre-left luminaries had to take out a full page ad in Harper's to make the point. [2] How far would an ugly trend have to exhibit itself in order for…

Here's the actual letter rather than a blog about it: https://harpers.org/a-letter-on-justice-and-open-debate/. Very brief, only three paragraphs.

Re: A backlash against gender ideology is starting in universities

#513

I think the irony of the current battle around identity is that we have been making steady progress based on the idea that personal characteristics shouldn't matter. However this whole debate is reversing that by not only saying it matters a great deal but that other people should be forced to defer to others personal choices even when it directly affects them

100% Agree. At least in my home country, this is mostly fueled by the left (I consider myself center). Lots of them just "work" of doing nothing but protesting, so once they get something they wanted, they have to move to the next thing. For example, they start by making changes to the language so, instead of being "los" (male) or "las" (female) they started to say "les" (does not exists in spanish) as they say it is…

> But it is not that they say "los", "las", and "les", they want you to say "les".

Trying to indoctrinate kids to use a non-gender specific term? It seems like using the term indoctrinate seems a tad strong.

Re: A backlash against gender ideology is starting in universities

#514
post #365

Can someone please tell me how important this topic based on the amount of news time and eyeballs it attracts relative to the number of people that it affects? The numbers I can find for US citizens is: 0.6% or 1,988,696 out 331,449,281 of people total for the entirety of the US in 2021. > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_demographics_of_the_Unite... In the UK where the featured article took place the latest poll I…

Based on the numbers I've seen, there are slightly more trans people in the world than blind people, but overall — you're not wrong. I don't even think most trans rights advocates would disagree with you that the amount of attention devoted to transgender people is excessive. The reason transgender people are getting more attention than blind people is because there is currently a strong movement to regress transgend…

https://www.diabetesresearch.org/diabetes-statistics#:~:text....

I don't know from blind people, but in America, there are anywhere from 10.2 to 17.5% of the population that are diabetic. While not pursued by hate groups, they are actively preyed by pharmaceutical companies and politicians who don't let insulins go generic - one of the few medicines that can't. Yes there is complaint about the medical system in America, I have yet to see diabetic/nondiabetic show up under facebook ID's like He/Him/His, normalization of syringe usage in restaurants, blood sugar testing not become a spectacle (of course I pick this one because I know the most about it, but there are many disorders that could be used with it). Stigma, predation and debate is associated with many things, but this one will get you fired/excommunicated from society. Speaking ignorantly about "just eat less sugar" to a type 1 diabetic does nothing.

Re: A backlash against gender ideology is starting in universities

#515
post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's weird is that not long ago is popular to say "I disagree with everything you have to say, but I'd die for your right to say it". It's amazing how times have changed from that shared belief. The videos you haven't seen are the ones that were never made because the wrong-view person was stopped from even giving their scheduled talk via "de-platforming".

It was popular to say, but I challenge the idea that people have somehow become less tolerant of speech they disagree with than, say, Christians in the 1980s or the US government during the Red Scare.

They were wrong then, and these people are wrong now. Unfortunately, they also have an indelible record of the internet to hunt down those they don't like for words uttered back to their pubescent years.

Re: A backlash against gender ideology is starting in universities

#516
post #98

I don't think gender ideology is an appropriate topic for HN. There is little to be gained and much to be lost from discussing it here. Little to be gained because it has nothing to do with software development, and because gender issues are thoroughly covered elsewhere. Much to be lost because gender issues are so divisive that we risk alienating members of our community.

I agree that this isn't the most productive HN thread ever, with a lot of comments repeating tired talking points or going for quick jabs instead of reasonable discussion. However, I would prefer to keep this topic open because it signals to me that there is still so much work to be done to educate people.

Trans people are a tiny minority that is only now coming into the public consciousness. We're going to have to work through a lot of ignorant discussions and bad faith actors to get to a healthier place.

Re: A backlash against gender ideology is starting in universities

#517
post #505
post #451

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What little research exists on the topic says that most of those girls will grow out of their gender dysphoria, and well-meaning attempts at gender reassignment surgery for them will backfire. This is frequently claimed but is untrue, or at the very least highly uncertain. The studies most often referenced have serious methodological errors, including inconsistent definitions of dysphoria (owing partially to proble…

I made a claim about ideology. You made a claim about medical professionals. That is not particularly relevant to what I claimed. I stand by my claim. The online echo chambers that children, including my own, seek out very much push the ideology that any claim to be male, female, non-binary or whatever must be accepted at face value. And that the person who is making the claim should have the right to any treatment t…

> You made a claim about medical professionals. That is not particularly relevant to what I claimed.

I removed that part as I agree it wasn't relevant.

> As for criticism of the research that exists, I agree that it isn't very good.

Unfortunately it's so poor that I judge it as being insufficient to use to form an opinion on this issue. It's much worse than the replication crisis at large, it's not clear that their methods prove what they claim in the first place if you look at their work. The pages I linked go into greater depth about why this is a difficult question to study and what the existing research gets wrong.

> The online echo chambers that children, including my own, seek out very much push the ideology that any claim to be male, female, non-binary or whatever must be accepted at face value.

That's as may be, but I suggest you read the WPATH standards of care if you're interested in what the medical community in general thinks about the medical treatment of trans people, including kids. It's a little out of date (2012), but if you can't find a knowledgeable medical professional nearby it's pretty much the gold standard, and is very well supported by evidence: https://www.wpath.org/publications/soc In particular, adolescents seem much less likely to desist than younger children.

Re: A backlash against gender ideology is starting in universities

#518
I worked for a company that hired 4 trans women (out of 7 people total) during a "diversity hiring" push, then touted the diversity of the hires. All of the trans women had been raised and had gone through university as white men, earning comp sci degrees, before transitioning in their mid- to late-twenties. While I do not debate that those individuals represent a type of diversity in the current company makeup, it always struck me that they likely received the same privileges that most white males do in technical degree programs. As competent programmers, I'm glad they found good jobs. Did they represent diversity hires? I still wonder how HR departments take this into consideration when pushing for diversity.

Re: A backlash against gender ideology is starting in universities

#519

Can someone please tell me how important this topic based on the amount of news time and eyeballs it attracts relative to the number of people that it affects? The numbers I can find for US citizens is: 0.6% or 1,988,696 out 331,449,281 of people total for the entirety of the US in 2021. > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_demographics_of_the_Unite... In the UK where the featured article took place the latest poll I…

Race and gender are infracultural values (these taxonomies govern architecture, city planning, and civil religion). Prior to recently, These are/were objective taxonomies. Which, is why rocking these pillars causes so much attention. (And thus, pays to cover, for a news syndicate)

Re: A backlash against gender ideology is starting in universities

#520

Can someone please tell me how important this topic based on the amount of news time and eyeballs it attracts relative to the number of people that it affects? The numbers I can find for US citizens is: 0.6% or 1,988,696 out 331,449,281 of people total for the entirety of the US in 2021. > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_demographics_of_the_Unite... In the UK where the featured article took place the latest poll I…

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