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A backlash against gender ideology is starting in universities

economist.com

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Re: A backlash against gender ideology is starting in universities

#311

Post by pseudalopex »

dang wrote: post #99
oofabz wrote: post #98

I don't think gender ideology is an appropriate topic for HN. There is little to be gained and much to be lost from discussing it here. Little to be gained because it has nothing to do with software development, and because gender issues are thoroughly covered elsewhere. Much to be lost because gender issues are so divisive that we risk alienating members of our community.

HN is for topics that gratify intellectual curiosity, not "software development". Please see the site guidelines: https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html . You're certainly right that this is an inflammatory topic with strong political and ideological overlap, and as the guidelines explain, we don't want flamewar here, and we don't want ideological or political battle. The site exists for intellectual curios…

Most of the discussion is the same old talking points. Probably because the only new information in the article is scant detail about a handful of disconnected events. The likes of which have gone on for years. The title is inflammatory too. Multiple ideologies are involved but only 1 is called that.

Re: A backlash against gender ideology is starting in universities

#312

Post by kelvin0 »

We should focus on giving ALL humans a nurturing environment and allow them to grow to achieve their full potential and in turn be able to share their talents to help others.

There is pain, sorrow. There is also place to grow and live a meaningful life and be happy.

Anything else is just nitpicking and a red herring. Creating an infinity of subcategories of humans is not the solution, because it incentives the us-them paradigm, and of course polarization of discourse.

Intolerance in any forms is destructive in nature.

Re: A backlash against gender ideology is starting in universities

#313

Post by dang »

teh_infallible wrote: post #146
lovegoblin wrote: post #123

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "Regular" women The word you're looking for is "cis".

The world you’re looking for is “real”

Trolling will get you banned here. You've unfortunately been doing this repeatedly lately. Please stop.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re: A backlash against gender ideology is starting in universities

#314

Post by Kharvok »

drenvuk wrote: post #268

Can someone please tell me how important this topic based on the amount of news time and eyeballs it attracts relative to the number of people that it affects? The numbers I can find for US citizens is: 0.6% or 1,988,696 out 331,449,281 of people total for the entirety of the US in 2021. > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_demographics_of_the_Unite... In the UK where the featured article took place the latest poll I…

The difference is that there aren't groups cheerleading the deconstruction of human sight because blind people exist.

Re: A backlash against gender ideology is starting in universities

#315

Post by fungiblecog »

drenvuk wrote: post #268

Can someone please tell me how important this topic based on the amount of news time and eyeballs it attracts relative to the number of people that it affects? The numbers I can find for US citizens is: 0.6% or 1,988,696 out 331,449,281 of people total for the entirety of the US in 2021. > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_demographics_of_the_Unite... In the UK where the featured article took place the latest poll I…

I think the importance is based not on the numbers involved - which are small - but on the significance of the demands. People are discussing our fundamental understanding and definitions of people's sex and gender that potentially affects everyone. A major concern is that once you let everyone self identify where does it stop? A caucasian woman was vilified a few years ago for identifying as black. Had she identified as male she would have been celebrated by the same people

Re: A backlash against gender ideology is starting in universities

#316

Post by 9wzYQbTYsAIc »

drenvuk wrote: post #268

Can someone please tell me how important this topic based on the amount of news time and eyeballs it attracts relative to the number of people that it affects? The numbers I can find for US citizens is: 0.6% or 1,988,696 out 331,449,281 of people total for the entirety of the US in 2021. > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_demographics_of_the_Unite... In the UK where the featured article took place the latest poll I…

> I don't mean to downplay what is happening because it is happening but do you not think the amount of outrage this topic generates surpasses the level of impact we can have assuming we fix it? It just feels like we're being distracted.

But downplaying it is exactly what you are doing, literally.

To answer your main question, though: the very small community that we are talking about is disproportionately being subjected to murder, physical abuse, emotional abuse, and widespread discrimination.

The disproportionate harms that this small community is subject to is the key to understanding the level of outrage being evoked on their behalf.

Re: A backlash against gender ideology is starting in universities

#317

Post by omginternets »

mike00632 wrote: post #276
omginternets wrote: post #179

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you think legislators and employers should get involved in decisions about nicknames? If so, that would make you some sort of authoritarian. And this is what the debate is really about: authoritarian vs libertarian political attitudes. I’m certainly ready to have that debate, but it would require the “woke left” [0] to abandon the moral high-ground. [0] There’s surely a better term to use, but I can’t think of it…

My point was that this is not about how personally difficult it is for you to respect someone else's preferences. It's actually very easy and we do it all the time for other things, like nicknames. If you're so against trans people having similar status as you then you shouldn't claim that it's because trans people are causing you a burden.

>If you're so against trans people having similar status as you then you shouldn't claim that it's because trans people are causing you a burden.

Yes, I understand. But, much of the opposition you're seeing isn't because people are "against trans people". It's because they're opposed solving the problem of intolerance through authoritarian methods.

Re: A backlash against gender ideology is starting in universities

#318

Post by whateveracct »

caeril wrote: post #302
drenvuk wrote: post #268

Can someone please tell me how important this topic based on the amount of news time and eyeballs it attracts relative to the number of people that it affects? The numbers I can find for US citizens is: 0.6% or 1,988,696 out 331,449,281 of people total for the entirety of the US in 2021. > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_demographics_of_the_Unite... In the UK where the featured article took place the latest poll I…

There's a large segment of the population that feels actively threatened by trans rights. The two primary components are: 1. Parents and sexual violence victims concerned about the non-falsifiability of trans-identification and the related concerns of sexual predators claiming an identity they don't actually have to gain access to private spaces of women and girls. 2. Feminists (TERFs) who believe being a woman is a…

> Feminists (TERFs)

One note: Nobody self-identifies as a TERF. Or at least not originally (I'm sure in Internet ire people do it ironically by now.) It's mostly a label used to crush nuanced conversation.

Re: A backlash against gender ideology is starting in universities

#319

Post by deadite »

caeril wrote: post #302
drenvuk wrote: post #268

Can someone please tell me how important this topic based on the amount of news time and eyeballs it attracts relative to the number of people that it affects? The numbers I can find for US citizens is: 0.6% or 1,988,696 out 331,449,281 of people total for the entirety of the US in 2021. > https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LGBT_demographics_of_the_Unite... In the UK where the featured article took place the latest poll I…

There's a large segment of the population that feels actively threatened by trans rights. The two primary components are: 1. Parents and sexual violence victims concerned about the non-falsifiability of trans-identification and the related concerns of sexual predators claiming an identity they don't actually have to gain access to private spaces of women and girls. 2. Feminists (TERFs) who believe being a woman is a…

>Interestingly enough, there's not much animosity toward trans-men. These ground exclusively concern themselves with trans-women.

I second this. Maybe it's some echo chamber effect or a minority stirring shit up, but I've hardly heard anything over the years about transmen-as-men vs men-as-men. It seems like most of the focus is on transwomen-as-women vs women-as-women. Maybe we're not as vocal? Maybe we care less? I don't think we have much of a dog in this race so I'm often confused as to why this topic comes up on HN considering most of us here are men. Boring day at work?

I do feel bad for the women's Olympics, but I'd like to ask the Olympics committee what the hell were they thinking long before I start any kind of anti-trans crusade. This is one discussion that doesn't seem to be happening much. The diatribe is as always directed among the proles and the decisionmakers get a free pass. Someone must have said, "Yes, lets allow a 35 year-old recently transitioned man to compete with early 20 year-old women," and some approval process must have happened. Those are the people you want to start asking the hard questions, not look at LH and blame her for participating in the Olympics that she's allowed to participate in.

Or as someone else put it: "A female POC just lost her spot to a white, middle-aged, male-born son of a billionaire. This is supposed to be progressive?"

Re: A backlash against gender ideology is starting in universities

#320

Post by HideousKojima »

Rebelgecko wrote: post #291
HideousKojima wrote: post #205

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>"I feel unsafe if there is a man in the bathroom." Why? Because men (biological males if we're being pedantic) are statistically overwhelmingly more likely to commit rape and other forms of sexual assault (and other violent crimes) and to be horny creepy perverted sex pests in general. Add to that the fact that men are much more physically strong than women (a ~5th percentile male is about as strong as a ~95th perce…

IMO bringing statistical likelihoods into it is a dangerous road to go down and could lead to some seriously problematic outcomes. For example, what if people in certain socioeconomic groups are more likely to commit rape? Or people of certain ethnicities? Would it make sense to require them to use separate bathrooms? Or is it only ok to slice and dice the stats based on certain characteristics? To me it's kind of a…

My rule for any of these things are all or nothing, in the margins lie chaos. I think a private business should be able to have as many or as few bathrooms for as many categories and groups as they feel like. But if you're going to block them from doing that, you'd better block them from splitting up bathrooms on any basis, otherwise all sorrs of special interest groups and lobbying groups will be looking to make special exceptions and cutouts that help their group and hurt their enemies, it's inevitable.
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