A backlash against gender ideology is starting in universities • Hacker News Board

Re: A backlash against gender ideology is starting in universities

#101

Post by busterarm » Wed, Jun 23, 2021, 6:52 PM UTC

anoncake wrote: post #50

zozbot234 wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Truscum" being the word for someone who thinks that changing one's gender and sexual characteristics might not be the greatest idea ever unless you actually have , like, gender dysphoria. Never mind the many, many people who are now pursuing "detransition" after going one step too far. I mean, what could possibly go wrong?

"many, many people" -- do you have numbers as to how many people detransition, not due to being pressured but because they aren't trans after all, and only after making irreversible changes?

The idea that you can even detransition is fairly recent. Before then you just had to live with it...and the suicide rate historically has actually been 20 times higher post-op.

You might want to look up what Danielle Bunten Berry, rest in peace, had to say on the matter. The important quote is on her wikipedia page.

Re: A backlash against gender ideology is starting in universities

#102

Post by casion » Wed, Jun 23, 2021, 6:52 PM UTC

oofabz wrote: post #98

I don't think gender ideology is an appropriate topic for HN. There is little to be gained and much to be lost from discussing it here. Little to be gained because it has nothing to do with software development, and because gender issues are thoroughly covered elsewhere. Much to be lost because gender issues are so divisive that we risk alienating members of our community.

Hacker news is not about software development.

See: https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

n.b. "anything that gratifies one's intellectual curiosity."

Re: A backlash against gender ideology is starting in universities

#103

Post by Latty » Wed, Jun 23, 2021, 6:53 PM UTC

throwaway284534 wrote: post #36

There’s a lot that’s already been said in this topic but I feel compelled to bring up the damage imposed by TERF talking points. The conversation goes something like this: “Transgender women possess an innate maleness that carries a non-zero threat to female spaces.” They believe that dictionary definitions of woman are prescriptive, declared at the chromosomes during birth, rather than descriptive, as in how one pre…

Indeed, well said. Even outside of the realm of gender, the rhetoric of biological essentialism is harmful.

When I see people say things like "biology is what is real", I think about the harm done to every adopted child who is being told that their parent isn't really their parent, that their relationship should not be respected as much as someone who is biologically related to their parents.

Re: A backlash against gender ideology is starting in universities

#104

Post by metalliqaz » Wed, Jun 23, 2021, 6:55 PM UTC

throwaway284534 wrote: post #36

There’s a lot that’s already been said in this topic but I feel compelled to bring up the damage imposed by TERF talking points. The conversation goes something like this: “Transgender women possess an innate maleness that carries a non-zero threat to female spaces.” They believe that dictionary definitions of woman are prescriptive, declared at the chromosomes during birth, rather than descriptive, as in how one pre…

Sorry to break it to you, but chromosomes are prescriptive. You cannot simply ignore that there are differences between X and Y chromosomes. Society's distinctions between the sexes is not arbitrary. Why do we have separate bathrooms in public but not at home? Why do we have segregated sports? Why do we celebrate feminists but not MRAs? It's because there is a real-world difference.

Re: A backlash against gender ideology is starting in universities

#105

Post by f38zf5vdt » Wed, Jun 23, 2021, 6:55 PM UTC

oofabz wrote: post #98

I don't think gender ideology is an appropriate topic for HN. There is little to be gained and much to be lost from discussing it here. Little to be gained because it has nothing to do with software development, and because gender issues are thoroughly covered elsewhere. Much to be lost because gender issues are so divisive that we risk alienating members of our community.

For a while I'd really enjoyed HackerNews for the lack of politics. It was great not to hear about Trump during the Trump presidency, but since then and COVID times I find more and more highly politicized editorials being propelled to the top of the front page.

I'm pretty close to no longer visiting here.

Re: A backlash against gender ideology is starting in universities

#106

Post by [deleted] » Wed, Jun 23, 2021, 6:56 PM UTC

fungiblecog wrote: post #92

I think the irony of the current battle around identity is that we have been making steady progress based on the idea that personal characteristics shouldn't matter. However this whole debate is reversing that by not only saying it matters a great deal but that other people should be forced to defer to others personal choices even when it directly affects them

[deleted]

Re: A backlash against gender ideology is starting in universities

#107

Post by MyHypatia » Wed, Jun 23, 2021, 6:56 PM UTC

throwawayboise wrote: post #96

MyHypatia wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't see how it is unreasonable for a female inmate to be uncomfortable sharing sleeping quarters with a person who has a penis (regardless of how that person identifies). The fear that cis-women have of rape is real. The fear that transgender women have of rape in a men's jail is real. I think the fairest thing to do is take both of these fears seriously and house intact trans-women in a space where they neither…

You would have to place them in solitary confinement then, as a trans woman could rape another trans woman.

No, you don't have to place them in solitary confinement. You can place them with other trans-women.

Men are housed with men in jails. Yes, sometimes they commit violence against each other, including rape. But we don't put all men in solitary confinement.

Re: A backlash against gender ideology is starting in universities

#108

Post by twirligigue » Wed, Jun 23, 2021, 6:56 PM UTC

There seems to be a new background assumption that one's identity can be chosen, whereas I think in reality it's inherited.

Re: A backlash against gender ideology is starting in universities

#109

Post by tetranomiga » Wed, Jun 23, 2021, 6:56 PM UTC

nemo44x wrote: post #87

JanneVee wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> We don't operate our universities on the heckler's veto. I've seen a few videos from various Universities where invited speakers are shouted down because of supposed wrong views. But then it isn't the heckler's veto if their views are wrong or what?

What's weird is that not long ago is popular to say "I disagree with everything you have to say, but I'd die for your right to say it". It's amazing how times have changed from that shared belief. The videos you haven't seen are the ones that were never made because the wrong-view person was stopped from even giving their scheduled talk via "de-platforming".

It was popular to say, but I challenge the idea that people have somehow become less tolerant of speech they disagree with than, say, Christians in the 1980s or the US government during the Red Scare.

Re: A backlash against gender ideology is starting in universities

#110

Post by ribosometronome » Wed, Jun 23, 2021, 6:56 PM UTC

nemo44x wrote: post #87

JanneVee wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> We don't operate our universities on the heckler's veto. I've seen a few videos from various Universities where invited speakers are shouted down because of supposed wrong views. But then it isn't the heckler's veto if their views are wrong or what?

What's weird is that not long ago is popular to say "I disagree with everything you have to say, but I'd die for your right to say it". It's amazing how times have changed from that shared belief. The videos you haven't seen are the ones that were never made because the wrong-view person was stopped from even giving their scheduled talk via "de-platforming".

Among a certain sect of internet libertarians, maybe. And we saw that the result of that was the proliferation of communities on popular websites dedicated to legal but sexually suggestive pictures of girls (ex. /r/jailbait on Reddit), communities dedicated to voyeuristic photography, vitriolic hate against people who are overweight, etc.