Effects of cat ownership on the gut microbiota of owners • Hacker News Board

Re: Effects of cat ownership on the gut microbiota of owners

#141

Post by pvaldes » Wed, Jun 23, 2021, 2:39 PM UTC

pvaldes wrote: post #113

clydethefrog wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The majority of cats in Europe is city cats that demolish the local bird and critter population. https://academic.oup.com/jel/article/32/3/391/5640440

Still autochtonous (more or less) species. Old world birds evolved with them for thousands years and somehow they will not have problems to survive. We know to do more research about the cat effect on that fauna instead to just repeat one preliminary study. We need to know for example, if there is a percentage of those migrant birds allegedly chased by cats in US that just crashed against a window or were stunded by…

-> We need to do more research

-> Were stunTed

Sleepy day, yawn.

Re: Effects of cat ownership on the gut microbiota of owners

#142

Post by evanelias » Wed, Jun 23, 2021, 2:56 PM UTC

teekert wrote: post #131

laurowyn wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This, in my opinion, is why we can't have nice things. Calling for the death of any living thing that we disagree with isn't okay. And trapping an animal indoors where it can't exercise its natural tendencies is also a non-solution. I completely understand the want and need to protect your property from intruders, animal or human. But calling for the death of any and all animals that enter your property is borderline…

I'm not killing any animals, I wouldn't even kill the rats, I was just indicating the arbitrary line between vermin and pets. We have frogs, hedgehogs and in parts of our town sometimes even a fox (and they kill chickens if you don't close the hen). I think it's beautiful. Not the same as the high concentration of cats we have in our urban area. One of our neighbors has 4 cats, and they all shit in the area directly…

> I can't leave the chickens alone outside during the day.

...

> If you love your animals, go live on a farm or in the woods. The city is no place for pets like cats.

So you say cats shouldn't be in cities, but chickens should be?

Cats have been living in cities for many centuries. Some cities have more outdoor cats than others. If you live in a city with too many outdoor cats, you could always try moving to a different city, or you could follow your own advice and go live in a more rural area.

Re: Effects of cat ownership on the gut microbiota of owners

#143

Post by Tenoke » Wed, Jun 23, 2021, 3:26 PM UTC

nix23 wrote: post #139

Tenoke wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I live in a city and letting my cats outside is not feasible. They are also perfectly happy indoors and I doubt that street cats live better lives.

>I doubt that street cats live better lives. I don't talk about street-cats, i talk about cats who can come and go as they wish.

Given how many of those get scars from fighting or disappear I'm not very convinced those are happier either. Dogs chained to a flat - sure, that'd be clearly not great for them but cats seem very comfortable being indoors only.

Re: Effects of cat ownership on the gut microbiota of owners

#144

Post by teekert » Wed, Jun 23, 2021, 3:35 PM UTC

evanelias wrote: post #142

teekert wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not killing any animals, I wouldn't even kill the rats, I was just indicating the arbitrary line between vermin and pets. We have frogs, hedgehogs and in parts of our town sometimes even a fox (and they kill chickens if you don't close the hen). I think it's beautiful. Not the same as the high concentration of cats we have in our urban area. One of our neighbors has 4 cats, and they all shit in the area directly…

> I can't leave the chickens alone outside during the day. ... > If you love your animals, go live on a farm or in the woods. The city is no place for pets like cats. So you say cats shouldn't be in cities, but chickens should be? Cats have been living in cities for many centuries. Some cities have more outdoor cats than others. If you live in a city with too many outdoor cats, you could always try moving to a differ…

I have to leave because it’s normal that cats shit in other people’s gardens? How would they feel if I let my chickens roam free, shitting everywhere, giving your pregnant wife toxoplasmosis, picking at the eyes of your small pets in your garden?

Re: Effects of cat ownership on the gut microbiota of owners

#145

Post by Tiktaalik » Wed, Jun 23, 2021, 3:52 PM UTC

Nursie wrote: post #130

clydethefrog wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The majority of cats in Europe is city cats that demolish the local bird and critter population. https://academic.oup.com/jel/article/32/3/391/5640440

The RSPB in the UK don't seem to think that cat predation is a significant factor in bird species decline - https://www.rspb.org.uk/birds-and-wildlife/advice/gardening-... "Those bird species which have undergone the most serious population declines in the UK (such as skylarks, tree sparrows and corn buntings) rarely encounter cats, so cats cannot be causing their declines. Research shows that these declines are usua…

Yeah cats have been around in europe so long that presumably at this point they've already killed all the native species that were gonna get killed.

Re: Effects of cat ownership on the gut microbiota of owners

#146

Post by Tiktaalik » Wed, Jun 23, 2021, 3:57 PM UTC

Tenoke wrote: post #121

nix23 wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Actually, keeping your cat inside should be the norm. Not in Europe, maybe new zealand. But in Europe we had/have wildcats until we destroyed the large forests. And nearly ever farmer depends on a cat to keep vermin's in check, if you have to keep your cat inside DONT BUY A CAT.

I live in a city and letting my cats outside is not feasible. They are also perfectly happy indoors and I doubt that street cats live better lives.

Yeah I have friends that work in shelters and cat sanctuaries and given the unhealthy state of the cats that come in to them, it's pretty crystal clear that life outside is not at all that good for a cat.

When I walk about my 'hood I do see pet cats enjoying a time being outside, but it does not take much bad luck for their fortunes to turn rapidly, due to getting lost and deadly encounters with cars and coyotes.

Re: Effects of cat ownership on the gut microbiota of owners

#147

Post by Tiktaalik » Wed, Jun 23, 2021, 3:59 PM UTC

gambiting wrote: post #122

teekert wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As long as you keep it inside (where it isn't defecating in my garden, hunting my chickens or trying to get inside where I may lock it in by accident causing mayhem, etc, I'd like my pregnant wife to still be able to do gardening and also I like eating things from my garden). I live in a country where it is legal to just keep you cat outside all day. It's madness.

>>I live in a country where it is legal to just keep you cat outside all day. It's madness. As someone who lived most of my life in the countryside and our cats only lived outside, I will echo some of the other comments - is there anywhere where you can't keep a cat outside???? That's madness.

Not every place is the same situation, but I can definitely think of a lot of reasons why a particular area wouldn't be appropriate to let cats roam about.

* places where there are endangered birds

* urban places with lots of car traffic

* places with coyotes or other cat predators.

Re: Effects of cat ownership on the gut microbiota of owners

#148

Post by evanelias » Wed, Jun 23, 2021, 4:02 PM UTC

teekert wrote: post #144

evanelias wrote: post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I can't leave the chickens alone outside during the day. ... > If you love your animals, go live on a farm or in the woods. The city is no place for pets like cats. So you say cats shouldn't be in cities, but chickens should be? Cats have been living in cities for many centuries. Some cities have more outdoor cats than others. If you live in a city with too many outdoor cats, you could always try moving to a differ…

I have to leave because it’s normal that cats shit in other people’s gardens? How would they feel if I let my chickens roam free, shitting everywhere, giving your pregnant wife toxoplasmosis, picking at the eyes of your small pets in your garden?

You don't "have" to leave. Nor do the cat owners. My point is you can't arbitrarily and unilaterally decide that one type of pet is OK and another type of pet "doesn't belong in cities" and should be banished to a farm. There are far more cat owners than chicken owners in cities! And I am sure some people do not like the sounds or smells of having a neighbor with chickens.

It sounds like your real issue is that your neighbors are irresponsible jerks who don't put any effort into managing their pets' behavior. I can relate -- I sure wish my upstairs neighbors would hire a dog trainer, instead of loudly shouting "stop it!" at their dog who audibly barks over a hundred times a day. It's utterly ruining my quality of life. But I wouldn't proclaim that dogs "don't belong in cities" just because my upstairs neighbors happen to be jerks.

Re: Effects of cat ownership on the gut microbiota of owners

#149

Post by teekert » Wed, Jun 23, 2021, 5:20 PM UTC

evanelias wrote: post #148

teekert wrote: post #144

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have to leave because it’s normal that cats shit in other people’s gardens? How would they feel if I let my chickens roam free, shitting everywhere, giving your pregnant wife toxoplasmosis, picking at the eyes of your small pets in your garden?

You don't "have" to leave. Nor do the cat owners. My point is you can't arbitrarily and unilaterally decide that one type of pet is OK and another type of pet "doesn't belong in cities" and should be banished to a farm. There are far more cat owners than chicken owners in cities! And I am sure some people do not like the sounds or smells of having a neighbor with chickens. It sounds like your real issue is that your…

Well, I guess we agree then.

Before we got the chickens we told both neighbors and assured them that if they ever felt bothered by them they should say so and we would look for a solution. Certainly if one would turn out to be a rooster we would take action. So far they never make sounds and they just roam around our (100 m2) garden, on the grass all day. Neighbors with cats act annoyed when you talk to them about their cats roaming the gardens. Because cats are normal.

I feel for you regarding the dog situation. honestly if you would ask me, an apartment complex is no place for a big dog. We held off on taking a dog because there is no place for it to run in the immediate area. But indeed it probably wouldn't be a problem if your neighbors acted responsibly, and that is where indeed all problems originate.

Re: Effects of cat ownership on the gut microbiota of owners

#150

Post by chiefalchemist » Wed, Jun 23, 2021, 5:26 PM UTC

mattowen_uk wrote: post #80

chiefalchemist wrote: post #64

I got turned on to gut bacteria a couple+ years back after reading a feature article in the NY Times Sunday Magazine. While it didn't say so directly, a theory I took away from that article was that gut bacteria affects longevity. That is, couples live longer because they have more robust gut bacteria; pet owners much the same. Might there also be an emotional component to a longer and healthier life? Absolutely. Hum…

> couples live longer because they have more robust gut bacteria Could you explain that a bit further please?

Well, people living in close proximity exchange gut bacteria. A more robust gut is a boost to general health (e.g., immune system). You also get good bacteria from pets (e.g., dogs).

On the other hand, when you live alone your gut doesn't get these benefits. So while it looks like there's an emotional-based downfall to living alone, it might also be the lack of gut diversity that cuts into your health and longevity.