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Is education no longer the ‘great equalizer’?

nytimes.com

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Re: Is education no longer the ‘great equalizer’?

#161

Post by omgwtfbbq »

fatsquirrel wrote: post #86

The article is paywalled so I can’t read it, but I think it’s about degree inflation and watered down education. Kids aren’t learning valuable career skills, but merely that mitochondria is the powerhouse of the cell.

Colleges and Universities were never meant to be a Job Training program, I never understood people who think of them that way. Corporations have somehow passed the buck for on the job training to colleges while simultaneously complaining that grads aren't ready for the job. If they want trained employees they should be training them or we need a completely separate system of credentialing "trained" workers, the College and University system was never meant for this.

Re: Is education no longer the ‘great equalizer’?

#162

Post by coryrc »

xyzzyz wrote: post #153
ARandumGuy wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Funding in U.S. schools is super unequal. Most school funding in the U.S. comes from local property tax. But if a district has a lot of poverty, then revenue from property tax is low. That means low funding for the local school, which lowers the quality of education for students, which makes it harder for the students to get out of poverty, which keeps the district's poverty level high. It's a self reinforcing cycle,…

This might have been true at some point in the past, but it is very much false now, and has been false for at least a decade or two. If local property tax revenues are low, the shortfall is made up for with state and federal funds. Just look at the data: worst performing urban schools often have more funding than better performing ones in rural areas or in smaller towns. If you don’t believe me, just show me a few ex…

To supplant your point:

Detroit Public Schools per-pupil funding: $15,891

Average Michigan per-pupil funding: $13,457

https://www.michigancapitolconfidential.com/underfunded-detr...

Re: Is education no longer the ‘great equalizer’?

#163

Post by xyzzyz »

kungito wrote: post #31
John23832 wrote: post #7

Two parts: First, I think the ability to DO THINGS is the great equalizer at this point. Being a do-er lifts you out of poverty (or at least out of poverty's worst resting state). Being a do-er expands your network. Being a do-er prolongs your life (people with jobs/daily activities tend to live longer healthier lives). The best part about this is that technology has made it easier to become a do-er. You don't need a…

I feel like the US has to split into separate countries and maybe adopt a system like EU. Everything in the us gets so generalized no one has any agency over it except companies with enough money to push a narrative across 300 mil people. Either that or the way you think about US has to change. I find it hard to believe every state does things the same way but still you say "US" has a problem and not Georgia or Calif…

That’s exactly how the USA was originally designed to work, and how it originally worked up until early-to-mid 20th century. It was only then when a bunch of power grabbing politicians, along with a bunch of complicit elements in the judicial apparatus, have twisted the US into completely different system that we now get to suffer from.

Re: Is education no longer the ‘great equalizer’?

#164

Post by mathgladiator »

only_as_i_fall wrote: post #104
John23832 wrote: post #7

Two parts: First, I think the ability to DO THINGS is the great equalizer at this point. Being a do-er lifts you out of poverty (or at least out of poverty's worst resting state). Being a do-er expands your network. Being a do-er prolongs your life (people with jobs/daily activities tend to live longer healthier lives). The best part about this is that technology has made it easier to become a do-er. You don't need a…

>First, I think the ability to DO THINGS is the great equalizer at this point. How do you define that though? Do you consider someone working a minimum wage job full-time to be in this category? Someone making $15-20 an hour but without any real opportunity for advancement? I don't understand the criteria.

This speaks towards hustle culture. As a kid, I was making $20/hr plus by going door to door raking leaves. The narration of 'get a job ' is not for doers, but rather 'go produce value for others'.

Re: Is education no longer the ‘great equalizer’?

#165

Post by omgwtfbbq »

Bostonian wrote: post #8

Education is a multiplier of IQ, not an equalizer. Many people, although policymakers won't admit it, don't have the IQ to study at the high school level, for example learning algebra. Even more people don't have the IQ to study at the college level, for example studying calculus and writing a coherent, footnoted term paper. And only a small fraction of the population has the IQ to do significant research and earn a…

I think it's been well established that a low IQ White child from affluent/high class parents will out-achieve a high IQ Minority Child from poor/low class parents on average and that this is basically universal across racial groups. So I don't think your conclusion is relevant.

Re: Is education no longer the ‘great equalizer’?

#166

Post by [deleted] »

asoneth wrote: post #141
John23832 wrote: post #7

Two parts: First, I think the ability to DO THINGS is the great equalizer at this point. Being a do-er lifts you out of poverty (or at least out of poverty's worst resting state). Being a do-er expands your network. Being a do-er prolongs your life (people with jobs/daily activities tend to live longer healthier lives). The best part about this is that technology has made it easier to become a do-er. You don't need a…

I agree with your second point that we have over-fitted education to optimize standardized test scores to the determent of encouraging intelligence. But at least from my personal network developed from growing up in a working-class town and eventually living in extremely wealthy neighborhoods in extremely wealthy cities I have not noticed a strong relationship between "the ability to DO THINGS" and someone's social o…

[deleted]

Re: Is education no longer the ‘great equalizer’?

#167

Post by whb07 »

techrat wrote: post #150
whb07 wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well a couple things to note: 1. An entrepreneurial teacher/teachers could provide a service for these suddenly flush parents at $4600 per child. 2. Most politicians, from either side are either corrupt or incompetent, so these labels don’t matter much to me. But if you actually look at the people running most say schools/admins and even large chunks of the government bureaucracy it’s people who believe in large gove…

> So what needs to be done, is to give a voucher to every parent to decide where to go. So, we just say 'fuck all the kids who were born in the wrong zip code' and can't overcome the distance gate to go to a better school with the voucher?

Well seeing as how the biggest failing schools are in large metros this argument doesn’t hold much does it?

One of the biggest school system is in NYC and the average student graduating high school is reading at a 10 year old level or less.

One could also imagine some sort of large vehicle whose sole purpose is to provide rides for students to attend the schools.

Let me see if I can do some more research on such a scheme. Perhaps, one could paint them a vivid color, so that people could know they are “educational vehicles”. Maybe yellow? I think I’ve seen such a system before…

Lastly, right now you’re saying:

“Born in the wrong zip? And the school is failing? Sucks to be you! Not my problem”

Or what am I missing? At least provide the opportunity for someone rather than force them to a particular outcome

Re: Is education no longer the ‘great equalizer’?

#168

Post by whb07 »

iammisc wrote: post #122
whb07 wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well a couple things to note: 1. An entrepreneurial teacher/teachers could provide a service for these suddenly flush parents at $4600 per child. 2. Most politicians, from either side are either corrupt or incompetent, so these labels don’t matter much to me. But if you actually look at the people running most say schools/admins and even large chunks of the government bureaucracy it’s people who believe in large gove…

> I think Thomas Sowell said once something along the lines that the black schools in DC at about late 1800s-early 1900s was OUTPERFORMING those of the white schools in the region. If one is to look at the present day schooling in the same region, those children/teens are functionally illiterate. There's a lot of quiet stereotyping going on where people assume that blacks have always underperformed whites in schoolin…

Yup! They assume today’s bad situation and apply it backwards, when in fact as time progresses, things have gotten worse not better.

Re: Is education no longer the ‘great equalizer’?

#169

Post by mnouquet »

silvestrov wrote: post #132
iammisc wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In a lot of European countries, a robust social safety net is the great equalizer. You don't get locked up to work in order to afford healthcare, food, etc. - and are thus more free to take chances. That is a great explanation in theory, but simply does not work out in practice. In order to support the safety net, the EU has to impose several regulations that remove the ability of people to 'take chances', such as…

> higher taxes on business Denmark + Norway: 22% Sweden: 21.4% Finland: 20% Germany: 15% Nederlands: 25% France: 25% USA: 21% (but 35% until 2017). So the tax argument does not hold, especially for the period before 2017. Birth rates are also the same: https://www.cia.gov/the-world-factbook/field/total-fertility... > the EU is not particularly excellent at any Odd that there are so many EU countries at the list of mo…

Nobody in the US pays the full 21% after taking into accounts credits and write-offs.

Re: Is education no longer the ‘great equalizer’?

#170

Post by whb07 »

dwater wrote: post #65
zozbot234 wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The failing schools will also get fewer students going for them. Money per student will be the same as it always was, and quite often with a better student/teacher ratio as well.

No. Schools benefit from economies of scale like almost everything else. If you have a school building designed for 2000 students and you have 600 attending, do you think it will be cheaper, the same, or more expensive per student to operate the building? It will cost more per student, which leaves less money available for teachers so the student/teacher ratio would get worse. The facilities will not be kept up as re…

Yes because this is exactly what’s been happening for 50 years.

I’d understand this argument say in 1975, but in 2021 your argument needs some deeper analysis

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