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A dwarf planet coming within 11 AU of the sun over the next 10 years

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Re: A dwarf planet coming within 11 AU of the sun over the next 10 years

#321
post #58
post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What if we crash landed into it? That would probably tick the irreversible box. Clearly engineering difficulties quite high though!

This is often jocularly called lithobraking and is typically not advisable.

I came here to reply to the parent comment's remark about "irreversible interaction like aerobreaking, but this dwarf planet has negligible atmosphere." by mentioning lithobraking because it's been consuming my thoughts for the past couple of months.

Like, imagine a collapsible rod about a kilometer long sticking off the end of a space probe, lined up so it hits the surface as close to perpendicular as possible, each segment made of appropriate material for its impact speed. (I think once you go past the speed of sound in a material, you can't transfer any more force)

With the far end of the rod, which impacts first and with the most force probably vaporizing/creating a crater on the surface (useful to align the rest of the rod), and later sections crumpling in on themselves predictably, like a highway crash barrier or car hood. With a certain max amount of Acceleration, Jerk, Snap, etc... that the probe can survive.

I would very much like someone to explain why decelerating a spacecraft like this is infeasible/inefficient so I can stop thinking about it. Failing that, I wish to devote the next few years of my life to jamming a massive spear into the moon.

Re: A dwarf planet coming within 11 AU of the sun over the next 10 years

#322

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So pretty much between Saturn and Uranus.... Even as an adult that still always makes me chuckle. I can't help it.

It’s pronounced your-uh-ness by pretty much everyone (or your-ah-noose if your going by the greek god and not the Latin copy/paste.)

> or your-ah-noose if your going by the greek god

I doubt that Οὐρανός is pronounced anywhere close to "your-ah-noose", unless you're pronouncing "your-ah-noose" in a very strange way.

Re: A dwarf planet coming within 11 AU of the sun over the next 10 years

#323
post #321
post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is often jocularly called lithobraking and is typically not advisable.

I came here to reply to the parent comment's remark about "irreversible interaction like aerobreaking, but this dwarf planet has negligible atmosphere." by mentioning lithobraking because it's been consuming my thoughts for the past couple of months. Like, imagine a collapsible rod about a kilometer long sticking off the end of a space probe, lined up so it hits the surface as close to perpendicular as possible, each…

So, uh, let's see…

First off, mass. Mass is everything in spaceflight. A rod like that would weigh thousands of kg at the very minimum, likely much more than the rest of the spacecraft combined. Spending the same mass budget for propellant and a big rocket engine would be much more efficient, never mind being useful for arbitrary velocity changes rather than just deceleration.

Second, shape and volume. How would you even launch a km-long rod to space? Not going to fit onto any launch vehicle ever devised. Besides, even at 1g it would collapse under its own weight. Making it telescoping would just increase total volume besides adding complexity – and mass, did I mention mass? Never mind that a collapsible rod is going to have a vastly lower compressive strength than a solid one, making it nigh useless for the intended purpose.

Third, moment of inertia. A long, massive rod stuck to your spacecraft is going to make orientation changes really difficult. And orientation changes are pretty important in spaceflight due to heat management, course corrections, and, well, being in the exact right orientation for your braking maneuver.

Fourth, the concept of a hypervelocity rod falling from space reminds me of something… yeah, kinetic bombardment, aka "rods from God" [1]. The rod and whatever it's going to hit are not going to behave like solid objects crumpling like a crashing car. Stuff at the point of impact is just going to instantly vaporize and result in an explosion likely in the kiloton range, a fried spacecraft, and a big crater on the surface.

Fifth, even if you first decelerate to more reasonable speeds by other means (which is going to take a lot of fuel because of the extra mass (see, again the m word)), a rod much longer than its diameter is not going to nicely crumple into itself under compression. It will buckle, and then snap, like a piece of spaghetti, failing to decelerate much at all but sending your spacecraft tumbling out of control.

~ ~ ~

All that said, there are instances where crumple zones have had a small role in spaceflight, including the the Apollo Lunar Module which included crushable honeycomb shock absorbers in the landing gear struts.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kinetic_bombardment

Re: A dwarf planet coming within 11 AU of the sun over the next 10 years

#324
post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you launch your telescope on a spacecraft and get it to match speed with the dwarf planet (which is necessary for a soft landing), there's not much point in actually attaching it to the dwarf planet. That just blocks the view of half the sky. Also, there will be nothing to see out there other than the dwarf planet itself.

Is that really true? If we manage to get a spacecraft get captured by the dwarf planet's gravity and orbit it, would that not be a lot less delta-V compared to if we made the spacecraft achieve the dwarf planet's orbit around the sun just by itself?

Could a probe have a long tethered anchor, so as it does it's flyby the friction of the anchor dragging the surface would shed more delta-V than the weight of the system (in comparison to just loading up on more propellant)?

Re: A dwarf planet coming within 11 AU of the sun over the next 10 years

#325
post #241
post #220

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The diameter of this asteroid is estimated to be ~160 km, which is 21.7 times less than Moon with d=3474 km. Assuming similar density, the mass of the new asteroid is 10000 less than Moon and it's unlikely to affect much.

Ah, ok, good to know! When I read "dwarf planet", I automatically assumed it to be bigger than (or at least comparable in size to) the moon, which is a mere sattelite of a small planet. Then again, even Pluto, which was considered for a long time to be an "actual" planet, is smaller than the moon...

Honorable mention: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RNtTylNR7ks

Re: A dwarf planet coming within 11 AU of the sun over the next 10 years

#327

Earlier quoted context omitted.

An object that side won't be dissuaded with any of the firepower available to us. We'd be better off trying to build bunkers or something.

Can we not attach rockets to it just to nudge enough to barely not hit it? I don’t think anyone would suggest we “America fuck yeah” a meteor with firepower.

A comet maybe but a dwarf planet... No way

Re: A dwarf planet coming within 11 AU of the sun over the next 10 years

#328

Okay so if this was a direct hit, what would happen!? Would it just be a non event for the sun or could we expect higher temperatures on Earth or worse?

It's apparently pretty hard to hit the Sun: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LHvR1fRTW8g (Though that video mostly talks about small objects like rockets. Maybe it's a different story for dwarf planets?) That said... Keep in mind that this is about a dwarf planet orbiting the Sun. It's 11 AU out, so twice as far from the Sun as Jupiter is.

More importantly the video mostly talks about hitting the Sun from a platform like Earth already closely orbiting the Sun, which is not the same thing as arriving practically from interstellar space. That's much more important than the size of anything.

If you were to make a velocity change to this object in its aphelion to make it hit the Sun, it would be vastly easier (at least per unit of weight) than do the same with a probe launched from Earth.

Re: A dwarf planet coming within 11 AU of the sun over the next 10 years

#329
post #277
post #251

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thus, "almost". But big enough to be spherical. Or to eliminate multicellular life on Earth, if it hit us.

C'mon maybe a few multicellular lifeforms would survive. What about everyone's favorite tardigrade?

Sure, but do they count? They would survive in the heart of a star.

Re: A dwarf planet coming within 11 AU of the sun over the next 10 years

#330
post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Could you get a nice gravity boost away from the sun by just following it for as long as possible?

No, that's not how gravity boosts work. If you match speeds with an object you actually get zero boost. The point of a gravity boost is to come in pretty hot (relative to the body you're boosting off of) and then go out pretty hot in a different direction. So you take your relative velocity vector at the point of the encounter and twist it around. By doing that you change your orbital energy around your central body…

Interesting, do you mind explaining how the "other object will lose a similar amount"? I find orbital mechaics fascinating and understand the concept of a slingshot, but I can intuitively understand how if we launched a rocket and slingshotted it around the moon, the moon would be affected by that
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