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Rival weightlifter speaks out on transgender Hubbard's Olympic place

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Re: Rival weightlifter speaks out on transgender Hubbard's Olympic place

#511

Post by golergka »

ajuc wrote: post #507
bagacrap wrote: post #499

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This post is generally ridiculous, but I will point out that we do have weight categories for boxing. I suppose we don't have height categories for basketball because no one wants to watch that.

> I suppose we don't have height categories for basketball because no one wants to watch that. I would. Then it would be more about skill than strength and height, like football.

But wouldn't you, in a 160-180cm bracket, for example, end up with nearly all players being 178-180cm? And then 158-160cm for the next one. Imagine what drama would happen if a promising teenage athlete would not stop growing at 159 and got 2 extra centimetres, for example: he would completely lose his shot to be a professional. People can adjust their weight with a diet, but they can't really change their height.

Re: Rival weightlifter speaks out on transgender Hubbard's Olympic place

#512

Post by ajuc »

golergka wrote: post #511
ajuc wrote: post #507

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I suppose we don't have height categories for basketball because no one wants to watch that. I would. Then it would be more about skill than strength and height, like football.

But wouldn't you, in a 160-180cm bracket, for example, end up with nearly all players being 178-180cm? And then 158-160cm for the next one. Imagine what drama would happen if a promising teenage athlete would not stop growing at 159 and got 2 extra centimetres, for example: he would completely lose his shot to be a professional. People can adjust their weight with a diet, but they can't really change their height.

3 cm isn't that much of a deal. 20 cm is.

And if 10 cm categories are too wide they can be adjusted to 5 cm.

I would actually change the rules in olympic basketball to have 1 player from each category :)

Re: Rival weightlifter speaks out on transgender Hubbard's Olympic place

#513

Post by void_mint »

ajuc wrote: post #507
bagacrap wrote: post #499

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This post is generally ridiculous, but I will point out that we do have weight categories for boxing. I suppose we don't have height categories for basketball because no one wants to watch that.

> I suppose we don't have height categories for basketball because no one wants to watch that. I would. Then it would be more about skill than strength and height, like football.

It’s already this way. It hasn’t been “about” height in a long time. The best players in the league aren’t the tallest by a long shot. Steph Curry is 6’4.

Re: Rival weightlifter speaks out on transgender Hubbard's Olympic place

#514

Post by llimos »

ivanbakel wrote: post #505
t_sawyer wrote: post #398

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except... gymnastics won't end up being dominated by a bunch of people like Simone Biles. Female sports will continue to be dominated by biological males if we continue to let this happen.

So? What would be the downside of trans women dominating womens' sports, if that were even the eventuality?

The downside is that the whole point of having women's sports was to give women a chance to win, which they would usually be unable to. What you are suggesting will again put biological women in the position where they cannot win. So you have defeated the whole purpose.

Re: Rival weightlifter speaks out on transgender Hubbard's Olympic place

#515

Post by ajuc »

void_mint wrote: post #513
ajuc wrote: post #507

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I suppose we don't have height categories for basketball because no one wants to watch that. I would. Then it would be more about skill than strength and height, like football.

It’s already this way. It hasn’t been “about” height in a long time. The best players in the league aren’t the tallest by a long shot. Steph Curry is 6’4.

This is the distribution apparently: https://i.imgur.com/v0QRyDr.png

Average is at 200 cm compared to 175 cm in general adult male US population:)

Compare this to football: http://www.twolfanger.de/wp-content/uploads/2013/08/Average-...

Re: Rival weightlifter speaks out on transgender Hubbard's Olympic place

#516

Post by MaxBarraclough »

dagw wrote: post #466
yerwhat01010 wrote: post #307

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> does Hubbard have an advantage so she will win 95% of the time? This graph would suggest she does: https://i.redd.it/vv4ws1848t671.jpg

If you read the article you'll see that Hubbard is top 10, but not top 3 in her weight class, and in no way a favorite to win. Even her scores pre-transition wouldn't guarantee her gold at the Olympics.

To be clear, are you saying the graph is inaccurate?

Re: Rival weightlifter speaks out on transgender Hubbard's Olympic place

#517

Post by ivanbakel »

llimos wrote: post #514
ivanbakel wrote: post #505

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So? What would be the downside of trans women dominating womens' sports, if that were even the eventuality?

The downside is that the whole point of having women's sports was to give women a chance to win, which they would usually be unable to. What you are suggesting will again put biological women in the position where they cannot win. So you have defeated the whole purpose.

>What you are suggesting will again put biological women in the position where they cannot win.

We should remember that most cis women cannot compete at an Olympic level anyways. That's the point I'm trying to make in this thread - physical outliers are already responsible for lots of non-competitions at the top level of many sports.

Every athlete with a physical advantage precludes some other athlete from the top of the competition. If the "point" of womens' leagues is to provide a level playing field for cis women, then maybe we should be more open to introducing level playing fields more generally - because there are large parts of the population that cannot win in the system we already have, either. Otherwise, the "point" of womens' leagues is just to provide a space for women to compete, and trans women should be allowed in those spaces.

Re: Rival weightlifter speaks out on transgender Hubbard's Olympic place

#518

Post by AnimalMuppet »

void_mint wrote: post #513
ajuc wrote: post #507

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I suppose we don't have height categories for basketball because no one wants to watch that. I would. Then it would be more about skill than strength and height, like football.

It’s already this way. It hasn’t been “about” height in a long time. The best players in the league aren’t the tallest by a long shot. Steph Curry is 6’4.

Pun intended? If so, nicely done.

Re: Rival weightlifter speaks out on transgender Hubbard's Olympic place

#519

Post by golergka »

pjc50 wrote: post #351
vmception wrote: post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah see this is a great example as I have no clue what anybody’s position is there upon a quick skim, and I’ve never even heard the term Gender Critical

"Gender critical" is the anti-trans movement. The reason you can't tell their true position is the usual one: they daren't say "we want to eradicate trans people" in public, so they take the "just asking questions" route. I feel that the trans community has largely been forced into defending "trans women are women" (TWAW), even if it has holes as a philosophical argument, because they need to fight the transphobic "t…

> The reason you can't tell their true position is the usual one: they daren't say "we want to eradicate trans people" in public, so they take the "just asking questions" route.

That's an interesting statement from the POV of falsifiability. Is there an experiment we could theoretically perform to find out if a person who's stating that he's "gender critical" really wants to eradicate all trans people?

Re: Rival weightlifter speaks out on transgender Hubbard's Olympic place

#520

Post by ben_w »

ffggvv wrote: post #492
ben_w wrote: post #251

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I believe this is one reason why some trans people are very keen for their hormonal therapy to begin before puberty.

yeah but even then it doesn’t change your chromosomes

Ultimately irrelevant, given the chromosomes produce stuff we can synthesise or inhibit. Not yet perfectly of course, but anabolic steroids have been synthesised since the 1930s, and are effective enough to be banned in sport.
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