161–170 of 643 posts
The idea that an athletic competition--conferring a first, second and third place, holds any substantial meaning at all is completely absurd. All other controversy simply flows from this fact.
Earlier quoted context omitted.
In my opinion people often speak incoherently on this topic because they are trying to be politically correct. Vanbellinghen is asserting that Hubbard should not compete as a woman. Hubbard identifies as a woman. In what way is Vanbellinghen not questioning Hubbard's identity? It is as if "I am not questioning your identity" is a magic spell that must be chanted prior to doing exactly that so you don't get in trouble…
> In what way is Vanbellinghen not questioning Hubbard's identity? Not all women are allowed to participate in powerlifting competitions. For example, people not qualified couldn't. People that are known steroids abusers couldn't. That doesn't make them less women.
Earlier quoted context omitted.
Taking hormone therapy dramatically changes your body, making using just your sex also problematic. It's a complex subject. Here's the best article I've found on it: https://www.barbellmedicine.com/blog/shades-of-gray-sex-gend...
yeah but it doesn’t make your body exactly like someone with different chromosomes than you that lived with that hormone set their entire life through puberty etc, and with a different bone structure and musculature
you might be hard-pressed to find two bodies each "exactly like" the other. The interesting questions here are not about exactly equal, but about equivalence classes of people, and in different contexts.
Earlier quoted context omitted.
It doesn't go without saying. Which is why you said it. The pro-trans movement starts from the assumption that any disagreement with their ideology is "harm". They've bullied everyone into accepting what is transparently a ridiculous situation; often by alleging bad faith. I'm very happy to see someone from professional women's weightlifting refer to this as a "bad joke".
"Ideology"? Is it unfathomable to you that people would reasonably be able to feel that they have a different biological gender to how they feel in their mind? And that people cavalierly dismissing their acceptance in society is somehow not harmful? If you want to talk respectfully about the implications of transgender athletes in sport, that's one thing. But what you are doing is not that. You're trying to dismiss t…
What I have an issue with is this type of behavior where they turn things upside down without any care for others. In this case, they're stealing glory from and seriously hampering the careers of lifelong female athletes.
Imagine lifting since you were a teenage girl, and someone else in their mid 30's, who would not have qualified for the men's competition, comes along to take your Olympic medal after going through a sex change procedure. It's deeply disrespectful to women. It requires a certain zealotry to bully your way into female spaces like this.
I always thought this category of problem would become acute when people with a disability became sufficiently augmented (with an advanced prosthesis for example) that they could compete with and eventually beat non-disabled athletes. At that juncture it would be necessary to create a new kind of Olympics for augmented people, because nobody wants to box with someone who has a terminator arm.
I feel like with this issue at some point we are bound to reach a breaking point. It's just a question of how far along things will go before we get there. People are more and more open about being transgender and there is more and more support for transgender individuals having the chance to live life as their correct gender. This is a great thing! However, it presents a huge problem for women's athletics, particula…
This has always been a problem, but one where all but the sports most extremely affected, like e.g. weightlifting with weight classes, have pretended it is not.
In powerlifting there additionally are "tested" and "untested" federations, where it's an open secret that the untested federations are full of steroids.
The point being that one can keep pretending these differences don't exist and agonise over the effect trans people may have, or you can introduce class systems that equaliser by physical characteristics irrespective of sex and gender.
Anyone who's done some semi serious lifting and then gone on a long break to return will know that progress is much faster the Nth time around.
This explains why those who have taken steroids will have a life long advantage:
Eg https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2019/01/190125084106.h...
I also understand that the male puberty imprints into the muscle development for life.
As such, two opinionated observations:
1) Once you've done steroids you should be banned from high level competitions for life, not just 4 years or what.
2) Allowing someone who has experienced and lifted weights through and after male puberty to compete against those who have not is grossly unfair to cisgendered female lifters. See point 1.
I always thought this category of problem would become acute when people with a disability became sufficiently augmented (with an advanced prosthesis for example) that they could compete with and eventually beat non-disabled athletes. At that juncture it would be necessary to create a new kind of Olympics for augmented people, because nobody wants to box with someone who has a terminator arm.
I always thought this category of problem would become acute when people with a disability became sufficiently augmented (with an advanced prosthesis for example) that they could compete with and eventually beat non-disabled athletes. At that juncture it would be necessary to create a new kind of Olympics for augmented people, because nobody wants to box with someone who has a terminator arm.
Earlier quoted context omitted.
"Ideology"? Is it unfathomable to you that people would reasonably be able to feel that they have a different biological gender to how they feel in their mind? And that people cavalierly dismissing their acceptance in society is somehow not harmful? If you want to talk respectfully about the implications of transgender athletes in sport, that's one thing. But what you are doing is not that. You're trying to dismiss t…
I have no issue with how they choose to self identify. I accept trans-identifying individuals and I will use whichever pronouns they ask of me. What I have an issue with is this type of behavior where they turn things upside down without any care for others. In this case, they're stealing glory from and seriously hampering the careers of lifelong female athletes. Imagine lifting since you were a teenage girl, and som…
That said, I don't really agree with this clarification either: no trans woman is setting out to have gender reassignment to bully their way into competing against women who were lifting since they were teenagers. I think you are attributing this to malice that is simply not there, and it is only an artifact of unfortunate circumstance. Trans women certainly don't want to be in this situation either: I'm sure they would much rather be born biologically female and compete that way!