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Rival weightlifter speaks out on transgender Hubbard's Olympic place

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Re: Rival weightlifter speaks out on transgender Hubbard's Olympic place

#41

Post by k12sosse »

ape4 wrote: post #8
RobLach wrote: post #2

Physical sport competition shouldn’t be separated by n number of genders, but by weight class.

"Gender" is larger than biological sex - a distinction that normally doesn't matter. Wikipedia: Gender is the range of characteristics pertaining to, and differentiating between, femininity and masculinity. Depending on the context, these characteristics may include biological sex, sex-based social structures (i.e., gender roles), or gender identity.

So what's the word to describe what they are talking about. Go ahead and assume what it is they're getting at, and answer it for us.

Re: Rival weightlifter speaks out on transgender Hubbard's Olympic place

#42

Post by devit »

Theory5 wrote: post #25
JoeyBananas wrote: post #18

What is the argument in favor of allowing transgenders to compete in female sports? Does anyone actually defend this decision?

Why wouldn't people support transgendered people able to be the gender they wish and being able to do so in all possible aspects? Be they transwomen wanting to play female sports, or transmen wanting to play male sports (which you oddly leave out of your question).

Because the fittest people with an expressed SRY gene (aka "biologically male") are generally 10-15% better at sports than those without it (aka "biologically female") so if you allow SRY-expressing MtF transgender people to compete in the female category against non-SRY cisgender female people (rather than only letting them competing in the male category), and there are enough of them at top levels, no cisgender woman will ever win anything.

Also, this incentivizes male athletes that can't win medals but are close to take hormone replacement theory solely so they can compete in the much easier female category and win medals, which runs in the same arguments against doping.

On the other hand, if you don't, then MtF transgender people are not likely to win anything, since hormone replacement therapy reduces performance (but not enough to match non-SRY people).

Re: Rival weightlifter speaks out on transgender Hubbard's Olympic place

#44

Post by swader999 »

Theory5 wrote: post #25
JoeyBananas wrote: post #18

What is the argument in favor of allowing transgenders to compete in female sports? Does anyone actually defend this decision?

Why wouldn't people support transgendered people able to be the gender they wish and being able to do so in all possible aspects? Be they transwomen wanting to play female sports, or transmen wanting to play male sports (which you oddly leave out of your question).

Sports only work on a fair playing field.

Re: Rival weightlifter speaks out on transgender Hubbard's Olympic place

#45

Post by fallingknife »

russellbeattie wrote: post #22

Everyone should agree that it's fundamentally unfair for biological males to compete against biological females in most sports. But the problem is any strict rules against this will lead to discrimination in so many other areas, I'm basically willing to look the other way as it's such a rare occurrence anyways. How many trans athletes are there? It's very sad that this is a political issue - it makes any reasonable s…

The line between competition and everything else is pretty black and white.

Re: Rival weightlifter speaks out on transgender Hubbard's Olympic place

#46

Post by jml7c5 »

JoeyBananas wrote: post #18

What is the argument in favor of allowing transgenders to compete in female sports? Does anyone actually defend this decision?

At its very core, the exclusion is seen as a form of "well you're not really a woman".

I could write more on the arguments both sides present, but that's the crux of it.

Re: Rival weightlifter speaks out on transgender Hubbard's Olympic place

#47

Post by jezzzabell »

It's an interesting one. Considering that the athlete competed as a junior I assume she also tried to get in to the Olympic team prior to her transition but was unsuccessful. Now she is ranked 4th in the world for her division. As I see it there's only two possible reasons for her current success despite being 43. That transitioning has not nullified all advantages or that the number of women weightlifters is lower and thus less competitive. Most likely some combination of the two.

Another interesting aspect is that New Zealand now has a much better chance to get a medal in this event. Given the importance that some countries give to winning the games, e.g China and Russia, might they push to have more MtF athletes of their own.

Re: Rival weightlifter speaks out on transgender Hubbard's Olympic place

#48

Post by hirundo »

russellbeattie wrote: post #22

Everyone should agree that it's fundamentally unfair for biological males to compete against biological females in most sports. But the problem is any strict rules against this will lead to discrimination in so many other areas, I'm basically willing to look the other way as it's such a rare occurrence anyways. How many trans athletes are there? It's very sad that this is a political issue - it makes any reasonable s…

When a trans athlete wins an Olympic gold medal, it will surely encourage more to try. As rare as they might be, they could easily come to dominate at the elite level in strength and speed events, and crowd out women who don't have the hormonal advantages.

Re: Rival weightlifter speaks out on transgender Hubbard's Olympic place

#49

Post by randallsquared »

throw-8462682 wrote: post #7
RobLach wrote: post #2

Physical sport competition shouldn’t be separated by n number of genders, but by weight class.

Weightlifting is already separated by class. As I understand it, weight alone is not enough to create a “fair” competition. A historical use of steroids changes your body composition so that you have more strength at the same weight, even if the use was years ago. From the article the implication is that the same is true for testosterone, giving male to female transitioned people a unfair advantage (as long as transi…

> the implication is that the same is true for testosterone

Testosterone actually is one of the aforementioned steroids. The first sentence of the article at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Testosterone (at the time of this comment) is

> Testosterone is the primary sex hormone and anabolic steroid in males.

Re: Rival weightlifter speaks out on transgender Hubbard's Olympic place

#50

Post by hn_throwaway_99 »

I thought Anna Vanbellinghen was very well said. It's not about questioning someone's identity, or their right to live openly. But this is about acknowledging physical reality.

One thing I'd like to add is that this is, by definition, a hard problem. The fact is sex and gender exists on a continuum, even if 99% of the time it seems binary. Anyone who says that the "other side" in this situation (regardless of which side they are on) is being idiotic is ignoring a lot of inconveniently difficult truths.

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