Did Windows 10 slow down with each feature update? • Hacker News Board

Re: Did Windows 10 slow down with each feature update?

#411

Post by sumtechguy » Tue, Jun 22, 2021, 6:24 PM UTC

snakeman wrote: post #319

sumtechguy wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I keep mine startup fairly clean and this is key to a 'fast startup'. There are about 10 different ways applications can auto start in windows and you have too check them all, as all will be used. My laptop from 2012 is 10-30 seconds. My laptop from last year is usually under 10. My NUC from 2011 is about 30 seconds and has been consistently that for the time I have owned it. Also on older computers check to see if i…

Amusingly, Microsoft provides their own tool (1) for excellent insight and enabling/disabling of all the various places applications can put their startup executables. 1 - https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/sysinternals/downloads/auto...

I had totally forgot about that util! Thank you for reminding me! The sysinternal tools are great. They should just bake them into the OS.

Re: Did Windows 10 slow down with each feature update?

#412

Post by nix23 » Tue, Jun 22, 2021, 6:55 PM UTC

Arainach wrote: post #410

nix23 wrote: post #372

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He talks about HD's, on Windows 10 you cant de-frag ssd's just optimize, aka trim. But de-frag HD's is often needed on windows in certain work scenarios.

Windows 10, just like Windows 8 and 7, automatically defragments spinning drives once a week. You never need to manually do it.

And? Maybe it's needed to be more often or not at all. However in Windows 10 you cannot defrag (with internal tools) SSD's like you wrote.

Re: Did Windows 10 slow down with each feature update?

#413

Post by judge2020 » Tue, Jun 22, 2021, 8:29 PM UTC

tremon wrote: post #395

judge2020 wrote: post #292

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> That is not how most end user installations are configured (aka, not as a virtual machine). IIRC if virtualization is turned on in BIOS, the host Windows itself effectively runs as a hypervisor-backed machine. I still think the tests aren't really representative, though.

Only if the Hyper-V role is installed, which it isn't by default IIRC.

You're right, hyper-v must be turned on via 'Turn windows features on or off' as well.

Re: Did Windows 10 slow down with each feature update?

#414

Post by yjftsjthsd-h » Tue, Jun 22, 2021, 8:35 PM UTC

N00bN00b wrote: post #365

yjftsjthsd-h wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It isn't shown because on 10 "power off" is a lightly-tweaked hibernate.

Not at all. Power off closes all your apps, hibernate doesn't. I'm generally using 15 or 20 apps. I only have to open those once a month after updates. If someone uses power off, they have to open them daily (I know, because I have other computers in my house configured like that).

True, it's not quite identical, but I expect that's why hibernate isn't on the menu by default (b/c power off was close enough in MS's opinion).

Re: Did Windows 10 slow down with each feature update?

#415

Post by yjftsjthsd-h » Tue, Jun 22, 2021, 8:37 PM UTC

herbst wrote: post #355

yjftsjthsd-h wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Aren't they using bundled/vendored versions? The OS can't help that; it's like Snaps on Linux.

Which still do not increase the booting time like that

It will if you set them to launch on boot/login, which is probably the real difference (Windows has a tradition of apps auto starting, *nix has less).

Re: Did Windows 10 slow down with each feature update?

#416

Post by marcosdumay » Tue, Jun 22, 2021, 9:08 PM UTC

bscphil wrote: post #367

marcosdumay wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Win10 is perfectly fine on HDDs. You just have to install Linux on the bare metal, and create a Win10 VM leaving at least 3GB of RAM to the Linux caches. This is faster than W10 on bare metal with SSD and the same physical amount of RAM.

Do you have any benchmarks illustrating the difference?

Benchmarks? No. That's just my personal experience with different computers. (And by the way, the faster than SSDs claim does not include startup time.)

Can one still benchmark Windows? Most proprietary software requires explicit authorization from the seller nowadays. (I'm quite certain those clauses are illegal here, it's not because of it that I didn't benchmark, but I expect to find none on the web because of it.)

Re: Did Windows 10 slow down with each feature update?

#417

Post by xtracto » Tue, Jun 22, 2021, 9:20 PM UTC

samplatt wrote: post #311

kroltan wrote: post #254

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right? I opened a Windows XP VM inside my 10 box a bit ago to play an old game, and oh boy was that incredibly snappy compared to what we have now. Sure, it's running in anachronistic hardware, but where did we go wrong? 3.1 was before my time, but I can imagine.

To be fair, 3.1 was snappy because it didn't have the layers of security and anti-crashing catches that we now rely on.

The thing is... I don't care, and I'm sure the original Win 3.1 commenter doesn't care either. I am old enough to have experienced Win 3.1 (and making it slower with the "magic-whatever" software that made animated icons, anyone remember their rabbit/hat logo?).

Aaaanyway: Give me a "chrooted/jailed" environment where I have all my "dumb", "no internet" connection apps (Jails are 2000 technology, chroot is older), and be done with it, so that if anyone hacks my machine or if I quadruple-click on that virus it is only going to affect the chroot environment and doesn't see anything else.

Truth is, a lot of contemporary commercial OS sluggishness comes from ""features"" that are either some kind of telemetry, or just "security" preventing me (the user) from doing things the the company does not want me to do (like the asinine OSX "feature" of disabling write access to certain parts of MY hard disk by default)

Re: Did Windows 10 slow down with each feature update?

#418

Post by msbarnett » Tue, Jun 22, 2021, 10:17 PM UTC

jcelerier wrote: post #334

danielheath wrote: post #294

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because it makes several of the isolation features the processor ships with useless, without documenting it?

But isolation had never been sold as a security feature, only as a "user-space crash can't bring down the kernel", no ?

No. Isolation has always been a security feature, not a reliability feature.

Consider that local privilege escalations are generally (and I'd say correctly) treated as critical severity issues. Any general purpose process memory read-isolation leak is a quick route to a local privilege escalation, so how could isolation be anything other than a security feature? In its absence, you might as well run everything as root and there would be no point whatsoever to caring about privilege escalations.

Re: Did Windows 10 slow down with each feature update?

#419

Post by Arainach » Tue, Jun 22, 2021, 10:43 PM UTC

nix23 wrote: post #412

Arainach wrote: post #410

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Windows 10, just like Windows 8 and 7, automatically defragments spinning drives once a week. You never need to manually do it.

And? Maybe it's needed to be more often or not at all. However in Windows 10 you cannot defrag (with internal tools) SSD's like you wrote.

I never said you could. I said that you didn't need to defrag manually, and that with the rise of SSDs doing so would be actively harmful.

Re: Did Windows 10 slow down with each feature update?

#420

Post by bscphil » Wed, Jun 23, 2021, 12:51 AM UTC

marcosdumay wrote: post #416

bscphil wrote: post #367

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you have any benchmarks illustrating the difference?

Benchmarks? No. That's just my personal experience with different computers. (And by the way, the faster than SSDs claim does not include startup time.) Can one still benchmark Windows? Most proprietary software requires explicit authorization from the seller nowadays. (I'm quite certain those clauses are illegal here, it's not because of it that I didn't benchmark, but I expect to find none on the web because of it.…

> Can one still benchmark Windows? Most proprietary software requires explicit authorization from the seller nowadays.

Yes, you can still find Windows benchmarks, they're all over the web in fact. The Phoronix test suite supports Windows for example, and Phoronix have a whole series comparing performance between Windows and various Linux distributions: https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=search&q=Windows%20vs.

They've also tested NTFS vs. other file systems before, although this was using the Linux NTFS driver: https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=Linux-4....

More recently they did at least one I/O bound test with Windows vs Linux, a SQLite insertion test: https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article&item=windows-... Linux + EXT4 crushed Windows + NTFS, but obviously I'd like to see a more well-rounded test. And of course none of these cover the question of whether Windows performance would improve running in a Linux VM.