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Internal Amazon documents shed light on how company pressures out office workers

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Re: Internal Amazon documents shed light on how company pressures out office workers

#361

Post by int_19h »

throw8881 wrote: post #254
int_19h wrote: post #245

Earlier quoted context omitted.

FWIW, I know quite a few people from FAANG and associated companies, and those coming from Amazon are consistently the most unhappy about work there. So, while this may not be universal inside the company, Amazon definitely does have a problem compared to the industry at large.

I will offer my perspective, and this is not to disparage or dispute anyone else's experience at Amazon or any other company. Personally, I worked at two companies before Amazon. I left both companies because I was unhappy. Two people from my last company also left for the same reasons I did. One of them is at Amazon, and the other one is at SalesForce. Does my experience at my last employer represent a systemic prob…

We're comparing companies that all hire at Amazon scale, at least when it comes to tech talent. If scale was all there is to it, they'd all have the same reputation. They do not.

Re: Internal Amazon documents shed light on how company pressures out office workers

#362

Post by ornornor »

TomSwirly wrote: post #356
okaram wrote: post #247

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Up until a couple of years ago, they did get stock (Amazon doesn't give you options, but stock grants). Not sure if that ended when they made the salary $15. If by 'logistics' you mean the people who pack/ship etc, warehouse work sucks, but Amazon has better salary and conditions than most others (pee bottle jokes aside). If you mean the warehouse supervisors, analysts, etc, they get paid fairly well.

It has the worst results in the industry - most injuries, most turnover. Where do you get these "better conditions" from?

Unions are usually a good starting point.

Re: Internal Amazon documents shed light on how company pressures out office workers

#363

Post by beckingz »

jonny_eh wrote: post #248
mulander wrote: post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He assumed I was not working or doing work for a different manager (they implemented matrix management and he was at HQ 70 km away from the town I worked at). I made a judgement call as that migration was a $20 mln project. That corporation had time budgeting. I was supposed to account in a production tracking system every task I did in 15 minute granularity. I have a ton of crazy stories like that out of that place.…

> In essence, the guy was a micromanager with trust issues. They later replaced him, with someone that was actually worse. At least it had a happy ending… oh wait.

out of the frying pan into the fire...

Re: Internal Amazon documents shed light on how company pressures out office workers

#364

Post by ipaddr »

sib wrote: post #281
ipaddr wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Customer lifetime value for non-prime members is under $1,000, $2300 for prime. Not exactly the leader. Amazon has 12 million skus walmart 75 million. End price reduction? Amazon is rarely the cheapest. Employee headcount, is more or less better? Things always seem rosier.

>> Amazon has 12 million skus walmart 75 million. ?? Sorry but Amazon has far, far more than 12M SKUs.

https://www.nchannel.com/blog/amazon-statistics/?_ga=2.21216...

Re: Internal Amazon documents shed light on how company pressures out office workers

#365

Post by kevstev »

astrange wrote: post #323
kevstev wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I feel like most of these stories are just coming out recently, in the last year or so. Maybe things hit a tipping point during the pandemic? I interviewed there about 4.5 years ago, and I didn't know any of this, and while there were a few red flags, they seemed mostly around their recruiting process and not with the job itself- at least until my onsite where my interview became almost outright combative and hostile…

> I headed on the flight back with zero interest in working with that team, though I did love the dog friendly culture. I remember reading a blog about working at Amazon that was mostly about how they hated the dog friendly culture and couldn't get any accommodation for being allergic to dogs. The reputation of Amazon as somewhere you go out of college and then quit after 2 years has been around a while, maybe about…

Its entirely possible I just wasn't in the loop. I worked for Walmart at the time, so it seemed natural to give Amazon a shot. Previously I worked at many meat grinders in finance and was familiar with that type of culture. Being on the east coast I was one of the first people I knew to leave that world for more of a general tech focus, I only really knew about the super well regarded and hated companies.

Re: Internal Amazon documents shed light on how company pressures out office workers

#366

Post by decafninja »

asdfman123 wrote: post #106
jokethrowaway wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you can pass Amazon's interview you can pass any other fang's interview which will give you the same CV prestige with probably less hassle. The only people I know who went to Amazon picked it just because it was the only fang they passed at and they didn't want to bother doing another round of interviews or wait for the cooldown period. Sure, other fangs have similar internal politics nightmares - but Amazon seems…

I failed Amazon like three times in a row (along with other smaller companies). This last year I expanded my search and got into Facebook and Google, despite failing Amazon again. Plus there are lots of smaller companies that are as prestigious within the valley as Amazon. I mean, if you had to hire someone, would you really consider ex-Amazon superior to Uber, Snapchat, Microsoft, some random startup, etc.? If I wer…

I'd rank Uber, Snapchat, Microsoft, etc. at least on par with Amazon in terms of resume brand name recognition/prestige. They're also probably at least as difficult to get into.

But "random startups" that no one knows about? Probably preferable to have Amazon.

Re: Internal Amazon documents shed light on how company pressures out office workers

#367

Post by coalslaw »

paxys wrote: post #59
joshe wrote: post #43

The problem with stack ranking at places like microsoft was twofold. First small team managers were forced to rank their reports, and each manager had to get rid of the bottom 10% each year. If you had 20 employees you had to fire 2 employees each year. But statistics doesn't work like that, there were many microsoft teams with all productive employees. And there were probably teams where 30% of the group should have…

It did not work like that at Microsoft at all. Stack ranking happened at an organization-wide level, so the total pool was hundreds of employees. It was perfectly normal for one team to be full of high performers, and vice versa. And being ranked in the bottom bucket didn't mean you were going to be fired. In most cases it wouldn't even lead to a PIP. It was simply a lower bonus, that's it. I have no idea about Amazo…

That's also the case at Amazon. And likely most large organizations. It's not a strict stack rank but an expectation that over a certain population size, there is a certain percentage of under-performers. It's also used as a method of calibration. Performance evaluations are hard.

Re: Internal Amazon documents shed light on how company pressures out office workers

#368

Post by coalslaw »

discodave wrote: post #73
joshe wrote: post #43

The problem with stack ranking at places like microsoft was twofold. First small team managers were forced to rank their reports, and each manager had to get rid of the bottom 10% each year. If you had 20 employees you had to fire 2 employees each year. But statistics doesn't work like that, there were many microsoft teams with all productive employees. And there were probably teams where 30% of the group should have…

In my experience at Amazon, line managers (5-20 people) still often act as if they have unregretted attrition goals. It's up to the Sr managers and directors if they spread the 6% goal around all their teams, or let one or two teams "implode". But the line managers know that their team either needs to outperform other teams or that the performance management buzzsaw is likely coming for one or more of their reports.…

To be fair, "regretted attrition" and "non-regretted attrition" are industry terms. Not Amazon specific.

Re: Internal Amazon documents shed light on how company pressures out office workers

#369

Post by coalslaw »

retrocryptid wrote: post #16

This isn't news, but what they don't mention is managers will set up their own "private" PIPs to frighten workers into doing what they want. It's not news that the big-A wants its software engineers working 60 hours per week. I interviewed for a principle engineer role and everything seemed to be going well. But when the offer came it said "Software Engineer II." I asked about that and they said... "Oh, don't worry.…

This sounds weird.

You interviewed for a PE role but instead was offered and somehow accepted a SDE2 position?

That's a 2 level downgrade and would mean a very different role for you with significantly lower compensation.

Re: Internal Amazon documents shed light on how company pressures out office workers

#370

Post by dimitrios1 »

rightbyte wrote: post #213
ptudan wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Top of market quality is obviously not IKEAs goal. There is no one in IKEA corporate who would argue differently. IKEA makes cheap, good enough furniture. Similar to Amazon's approach. You can't argue that either is not hitting a certain high quality bar when neither are striving for it. Disclaimer: I work for AMZN

Ikea has more similarities with Apple than Amazon. Amazon is a mishmash of stuff being sold, like Dollarstore or whatever. Ikea is more like the Apple store. Ikea is a streamlined and well thought out experience.

> Ikea is a streamlined and well thought out experience.

It's so fascinating how diverse people's viewpoints are! My first experience of IKEA was that it was a confusing, frustrating, poorly laid out and inefficient labyrinth designed to get you lost, and also funnel you to the "hot dog" items that make them the majority of their profit. I've taken many of my parents and observed similarly people's parents and grandparents of friends get just as frustrated and confused at the layout. For god sakes, I just want to be able to walk in, go to the "kitchen decor" get what I need, and walk out. I don't want an "experience", but I digress.

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