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Google’s Messaging Mess: A Timeline

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Re: Google’s Messaging Mess: A Timeline

#111

Post by fauigerzigerk »

gonehome wrote: post #26
COGlory wrote: post #7

I tried so hard to integrate into the Google ecosystem. I had a Gmail account and Google Talk to start. Eventually an Android phone, on Project Fi, with Hangouts and SMS (so I could send SMS over the internet). I upgraded from Gmail to Inbox. Then when they ditched that for Allo and Duo I tried to switch to those. Then I lost SMS on my computer because it got removed from Hangouts. Then I tried to switch to Google vo…

I used Google Voice when they first acquired it - it was years early and really ahead of things back then. Texting from the web, voice transcription for messages, could ring multiple numbers. Then they did nothing with it for maybe seven years? MMS would silently fail so people inviting you to events via group chat or sending you a photo would just think you were ignoring them. Hangouts came and the mess with that an…

The difference is, when Apple's software and services are disjointed and user hostile, it's because they think it serves their business interests, and they may be right. I'm proof of it.

I buy all their hardware in spite of not being able to use FaceTime or iMessage (beyond than SMS functionality) or any of their iCloud and services sharing because my wife and friends are all on Android/Linux/Windows. It's not a big deal because most software I use is on the web anyway.

But Google is a mystery to me. I recently tried to subscribe to Youtube Premium, but they wouldn't let me sign up with my Google account because it's a Google Workspace (formerly G Suite) account. So if you pay for one of their services you're locked out of others. I don't think this is a business strategy. Google is simply flotilla of rudderless ships.

Re: Google’s Messaging Mess: A Timeline

#112

Post by benjaminwootton »

Google have really made a hash over this entire space. I wouldn't even know which products to search for if I wanted to.

They had multiple opportunities to dominate the markets which Zoom, Slack, Discord, Whatsapp, Facebook Messenger own today. Simply iterating within a single brand rather than this ADHD approach would have got them there.

They own controlling percentages of the email market and mobile market, it was all an enormous open goal.

Re: Google’s Messaging Mess: A Timeline

#113

Post by tannhaeuser »

mr_o47 wrote: post #57
busymom0 wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> My email is now IMAP > WebDAV Can you explain how you implemented these too?

What’s WebDAV I’m just curious to know

WebDAV is a fairly portable file (or "resource") transfer and remote directory listing etc. protocol over HTTP designed such that it doesn't conflict with regular HTTP operations (GET, POST) send from browsers and implemented by traditional web servers to replace late-1990s FTP-based site maintenance practices by a webserver-integrated facility. It uses HTTP PUT operations (not normally send from browsers unless using JavaScript) and introduces WebDAV-only HTTP verbs (COPY, LOCK, MKCOL, PROPFIND, etc.). It uses XML payloads for representing directory listings and arbitrary file metadata attributes. In the context of this thread, the add-on protocol CalDAV is meant, which specializes the "resource" concept to calendars and scheduling events. There's also a much more elaborate XML-leaning protocol for messaging called XMPP.

Re: Google’s Messaging Mess: A Timeline

#114

Post by ideamotor »

gary_0 wrote: post #87
pmontra wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This and also: I wonder if the messiness of these products derives from a messy company structure. Maybe different departments or teams competing against each other for money, career advancements, etc. all without a strong leadership that can cut bad ideas before they start to be developed. Does anybody have information to prove or disprove this conjecture?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conway%27s_law

Interesting. Perhaps this is why large corps often can’t build cross-functional flat apps that effectively share data and make said company more efficient and profitable.

Re: Google’s Messaging Mess: A Timeline

#115

Post by vl »

COGlory wrote: post #7

I tried so hard to integrate into the Google ecosystem. I had a Gmail account and Google Talk to start. Eventually an Android phone, on Project Fi, with Hangouts and SMS (so I could send SMS over the internet). I upgraded from Gmail to Inbox. Then when they ditched that for Allo and Duo I tried to switch to those. Then I lost SMS on my computer because it got removed from Hangouts. Then I tried to switch to Google vo…

But your integration into Google ecosystem was not an objective, and this is not a mess at all, it worked as intended - a lot of people got promos!

Just imagine if there is a consistent, coherent multi-year strategy, it would be way harder to get a promotion.

(I actually worked on one of the mentioned messaging products, it was a shitshow)

Re: Google’s Messaging Mess: A Timeline

#116

Post by leokennis »

thenoblesunfish wrote: post #51

A comment I don't see here yet is that this is to some extent a consequence of Google's business model. The assumption seems to be that a company should be wary about doing what they're doing, because they'll lose business. But Google's not directly selling these services, in most cases. I assume they're happy with the way they do things, which is try a bunch of stuff in a slightly chaotic but fairly nimble way, be h…

For consumers: sure. It's free, so expect nothing.

But if I were an enterprise, I'd be super cautious to sign any contract with Google for any product. Who knows they'll cancel the product your business is built on, with 30 days warning.

Can you imagine IBM / RedHat / Microsoft doing that? No. Can you imagine Google doing it?

Re: Google’s Messaging Mess: A Timeline

#117

Post by dmitriid »

superzamp wrote: post #71
sirius87 wrote: post #22

Gmail now displays a splash/loading screen that reads "Google Workspace". Confused the heck out of me because I have a personal account with Google One for extra storage space, and a Google Workspace account for a managed domain for my startup.

Similarly disturbing, anything related to login seems to briefly hop-redirect through accounts.youtube.com at some point in the auth flow.

Because accounts in Google ecosystem is such a mess, no one understands how they work. This isn't helped by all the systems they acquired and bolted on, and by various teams coming up with their own login flows.

Just an example of the mess: https://grumpy.website/post/0PU1U2r3v

Re: Google’s Messaging Mess: A Timeline

#118

Post by MagnumOpus »

gman83 wrote: post #27
barsonme wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m not sure how true it is, but the common refrain I keep seeing on HN and elsewhere is that Google’s promotion track incentivizes new products over maintaining and expanding current products.

I heard that this hasn't been true for several years, but everyone keeps repeating it.

The cycle of neglecting/shutting-down established good products and creating dozens of new half-baked products instead continues, so unless you have a better explanation, this being true is Occam's Razor...

Re: Google’s Messaging Mess: A Timeline

#119

Post by vl »

gonehome wrote: post #26
COGlory wrote: post #7

I tried so hard to integrate into the Google ecosystem. I had a Gmail account and Google Talk to start. Eventually an Android phone, on Project Fi, with Hangouts and SMS (so I could send SMS over the internet). I upgraded from Gmail to Inbox. Then when they ditched that for Allo and Duo I tried to switch to those. Then I lost SMS on my computer because it got removed from Hangouts. Then I tried to switch to Google vo…

I used Google Voice when they first acquired it - it was years early and really ahead of things back then. Texting from the web, voice transcription for messages, could ring multiple numbers. Then they did nothing with it for maybe seven years? MMS would silently fail so people inviting you to events via group chat or sending you a photo would just think you were ignoring them. Hangouts came and the mess with that an…

Google Voice was basically almost de-staffed for few years. Then they started to invest into it again around 2017, I don’t remember exact reason why the strategy changed.

Re: Google’s Messaging Mess: A Timeline

#120

Post by di4na »

cmrdporcupine wrote: post #107
JimDabell wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Maps was entirely rewritten > Gmail had the entire backend rewritten > Docs was completely rewritten > Spreadsheets was rewritten twice I think I’m starting to understand why these products very rarely receive new features, which I believe is the point di4na was making.

All these products have improved incrementally, adding new features in an unobtrusive way. Which is from my perspective as a user how it should be done. I was just yesterday building spreadsheets and charting from hundreds of thousands of rows of data, something you couldn't do with sheets a few years ago, it just crumbled under the load. Usually when I look up a way to do something, Sheets and Excel are feature pari…

If the improvement is not felt by people that uses it everyday, i consider that a failure to improve... and as i was saying, i see the evolution of Maps. I do not see it as significant for gmail.

The multiple inbox thingy for gmail may be great, but i still have a gmail that is sluggish af

Same for gdoc. Parity with excel ? It is so sluggish and a pain to do anything with it that i now pay for excel...

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