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We Can't Let People Work from Home, for Stupid Reasons

blog.davidtate.org

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Re: We Can't Let People Work from Home, for Stupid Reasons

#201

Post by tablespoonsruby »

kelnos wrote: post #188
tablespoonsruby wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the same way that most people don't want to pair program full time, but it's perfectly legitimate for a company to decide it wants to be a full-time pairing shop if they think it's important enough to limit their hiring pool to people who want to pair program, it's perfectly legitimate for a company to decide it does not want to be remote.

The problem is, as usual, one of power imbalance. Employers -- especially those in industries where unions and collective bargaining is unusual -- tend to have a lot more power in the relationship than their employees do, so they get to dictate terms, at least up until the point that labor willing to accept those terms becomes scarce. I think we can agree that if every software company decided that they were going to…

> I don't think it'd be too much of a stretch to also suggest that it'd be bad if all employers decided that their workers had to be butts-in-seats 40 hours (or more) per week, no exceptions.

Well, yes. That's not happening, though. My point is that I see people essentially claiming that it's immoral for any companies to not permit remote work, and I disagree with that.

Re: We Can't Let People Work from Home, for Stupid Reasons

#202

Post by tolbish »

tablespoonsruby wrote: post #201
kelnos wrote: post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is, as usual, one of power imbalance. Employers -- especially those in industries where unions and collective bargaining is unusual -- tend to have a lot more power in the relationship than their employees do, so they get to dictate terms, at least up until the point that labor willing to accept those terms becomes scarce. I think we can agree that if every software company decided that they were going to…

> I don't think it'd be too much of a stretch to also suggest that it'd be bad if all employers decided that their workers had to be butts-in-seats 40 hours (or more) per week, no exceptions. Well, yes. That's not happening, though. My point is that I see people essentially claiming that it's immoral for any companies to not permit remote work, and I disagree with that.

What is the difference between mandated butts in seats for 40 hours and not permitting remote work?

Re: We Can't Let People Work from Home, for Stupid Reasons

#203

Post by tablespoonsruby »

tolbish wrote: post #202
tablespoonsruby wrote: post #201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I don't think it'd be too much of a stretch to also suggest that it'd be bad if all employers decided that their workers had to be butts-in-seats 40 hours (or more) per week, no exceptions. Well, yes. That's not happening, though. My point is that I see people essentially claiming that it's immoral for any companies to not permit remote work, and I disagree with that.

What is the difference between mandated butts in seats for 40 hours and not permitting remote work?

Nothing. There's a difference between all employers forbidding remote work, and only some of them doing so.

Re: We Can't Let People Work from Home, for Stupid Reasons

#204

Post by davidbanham »

lastofthemojito wrote: post #12

I think a lot of the responses to the straw man's questions are reasonable and thoughtful. But I think this sentiment: >I don't want to change the way I work, I just want people to join me in the office. My kids are driving me crazy. Is it weird to say I'm lonely; I miss my office friends. Deserves more respect. There are lot of types of people out there, and it seems like at least some of them are energized by being…

I completely respect that for many people the office is a fulcrum of their social life and they don’t want that to change. The remote work revolution actually makes that easier, not harder. We just have to get past the anachronistic idea that the people you share an office with also need to have the same company name written at the top of their paycheques.

Invest the money saved on leases and cleaners on coworking memberships for those that want them. They can pick somewhere local with a pleasant commute. They’ll meet and share a space with people from their local area. They’ll be energised by interesting conversations with people from other industries. They can form friendships without the weird distortions of power imbalances caused by their positions in an org chart.

If the person at the next desk makes a weird noise when they breathe and always leaves dirty dishes in the sink? Cancel your desk and try a different place. No biggie.

Remote work doesn’t have to mean work from home. It’s up to you.

Re: We Can't Let People Work from Home, for Stupid Reasons

#206

Post by lastofthemojito »

jfrunyon wrote: post #130
lastofthemojito wrote: post #12

I think a lot of the responses to the straw man's questions are reasonable and thoughtful. But I think this sentiment: >I don't want to change the way I work, I just want people to join me in the office. My kids are driving me crazy. Is it weird to say I'm lonely; I miss my office friends. Deserves more respect. There are lot of types of people out there, and it seems like at least some of them are energized by being…

But the people who work poorly when others are regularly distracting them with office chit-chat don't deserve respect? I can guess which type of person you are...

>But the people who work poorly when others are regularly distracting them with office chit-chat don't deserve respect?

I certainly don't mean that. Another poster who replied to my original comment compared it to a company that chooses to do pair programming, knowing that not all software developers like pair programming. It'd be fine for some companies to choose to implement pair programming and some not, and for the most part, employees would choose employers that fit their preference.

Likewise, I see room for companies that run with being in the office. Not all companies. Not everyone wants that. But if some companies offer remote, some companies are in the office and some offer a mix, I think that's a good thing for the variety of workers out there. There might be some transitional pain if your current employer does something other than your preference, but that's long been the case, and (hopefully) you have other options.

Re: We Can't Let People Work from Home, for Stupid Reasons

#207

Post by saiojd »

MattGaiser wrote: post #163
saiojd wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your description summarizes what I've been trying to express so concisely – it's almost shocking. I'm left wondering on what side of the split you stand on.

I mostly care about the corporate goals. I have far less of a normal life than most people and am far more obsessive about the kinds of things I do spend my time on than most people, so I don't personally bond that easily nor enjoy the casual moments or marshmallow and spaghetti tower building. I enjoy objectives and racing towards them.

I see! I understand the obsessiveness, I believe, but to me WFH (which I dislike) seems more of a way of "checking out/focusing on the rest of my life" than to truly indulge in work. I find it interesting that you have a similar understanding of things but a very different point of view.

Re: We Can't Let People Work from Home, for Stupid Reasons

#209

Post by maigret »

drewcoo wrote: post #138
maigret wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I disagree fully with that statement. It’s completely oversimplifying the reasons to mostly work from home. One might want to spend more time with their loved ones, save money because of commute, might enjoy knowledge seeking and learning by themselves and love long focused work. You can get the human experience in many different ways. For example why meeting the colleagues at the far away office if most of them leav…

You seem to be agreeing, not disagreeing.

¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Re: We Can't Let People Work from Home, for Stupid Reasons

#210

Post by ajuc »

Diederich wrote: post #169
ajuc wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I started to draw in ms paint during meetings and got pretty good in it last year :)

Care to share your best couple of drawings? (:

It's not THAT good, just good compared to how I drew before :)

Here's a gnomish submarine I drew for D&D campaign I run. https://live.staticflickr.com/65535/51263880414_ee12f5cc5d_o...

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