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Life as a public school teacher in the San Francisco Bay Area in 2021

adamcadre.ac

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Re: Life as a public school teacher in the San Francisco Bay Area in 2021

#741

Post by brianwawok »

orn688 wrote: post #62
WanderPanda wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don‘t see the causal relationship between the 100%ers getting 80% and the 0%ers suddenly getting 20%

If you slow down the pace to help the "zero percenters" and only cover 80% of the material in the allotted time, the students who could have handled 100% of the material will be limited to 80%. And that slowdown still won't be enough to help the slowest learners much, so they'll still only learn, say, 20% of the material.

Right. In fact you can find studies to back this up.

In schools with blended ability levels, the worst students do better (pulled up by the higher students), but the best studends do worse.

Good if you are in the bottom, bad ify ou are in the top.

Re: Life as a public school teacher in the San Francisco Bay Area in 2021

#742

Post by torben-friis »

bargle0 wrote: post #643
torben-friis wrote: post #617

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honestly, I think viewing it as an exclusive choice is harmful. Schools need resources for both kinds of students, and if they have to choose who gets the attention they are simply underfunded.

Some of these failing school systems (Baltimore, MD & Prince George’s County, MD) have some of the highest budgets per pupil in the country. The problem isn’t money.

I think numbers might lie a bit there.

If the function of education is to provide an even starting point for kids regardless of their personal environment, it stands to reason that in places where those personal environments are worse you'd need brutal amounts of resources, since you'll indirectly be covering for parents' neglect, psychological issues, and other factors that should have been handled somewhere else but are being stuck in the education budget. If you see it under that scope, absolute numbers might not tell you much.

Re: Life as a public school teacher in the San Francisco Bay Area in 2021

#743

Post by kbelder »

giantg2 wrote: post #426
Mehdi2277 wrote: post #413

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you taken the citizenship test? I am an immigrant and my dad had to take it. I was a bit under age requirement but did look over it. One example it doesn't even ask for the 3 branches of government, just name a single one. A lot of the questions are nice like that and will let you give a partial answer. You can see questions here, https://www.uscis.gov/sites/default/files/document/questions... The test is longer…

I get that they standards are pretty low. I remember an article showing that most TX citizens couldn't pass the test. Here is a similar article that shows over a third of US citizens would fail. https://www.vox.com/2014/4/26/5654020/awkward-americans-cant... My biggest issue is how can we improve the knowledge of the citizens since this sort of knowledge is necessary for a strong democracy? I'm not sure what the best…

You could require passing the test in order to vote; but that would be a pretty unpopular suggestion right now.

Re: Life as a public school teacher in the San Francisco Bay Area in 2021

#744

Post by ArkanExplorer »

Shacklz wrote: post #267
ArkanExplorer wrote: post #235

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The fundamental problem is that formal schooling is basically a waste of time for a reasonable fraction of the population. Do you need any more than basic literacy and numeracy to be a retail worker, cook, laborer, driver? These students would be much better off learning a hands-on trade, or in the workforce. The school leaving and employment age should be moved to 14. Expulsions should also be properly enforced, inc…

This is kind of the approach that Switzerland is taking (disclaimer; I'm Swiss), although I would not formulate it as drastically. It depends a bit on the region but school is required until 14-ish, after that there's a split for "gymnasium", which is continued full-time-school, around 20% of the students do this (again, varies by region). The remaining 80% start an "apprenticeship", where they work 40-60% on a job,…

The USA is actively ending those programs because all of the people in the 'gymnasiums' are Jewish/White/Asian, and this is seen as politically/socially unacceptable.

Re: Life as a public school teacher in the San Francisco Bay Area in 2021

#745

Post by teachrdan »

A4ET8a8uTh0 wrote: post #660
dbt00 wrote: post #549

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem isn't what school the parents pick, it's that the voucher schools cherry pick high scoring kids to hold up stats and aren't accountable to the state for the education the state is paying for.

But isn't it a good thing where birds of feather flock together? Just not being dragged down from low scoring kids is worth it. Why can't they select for criteria they are looking for?

In practice this means discriminating against students who are non-native English speakers, students with learning disabilities, etc.

> Just not being dragged down from low scoring kids is worth it.

It depends on the kind of society you want to live in. I would rather live in a society that prioritizes decreasing inequality rather than exacerbating it.

https://www.jdsupra.com/legalnews/success-academy-charter-sc...

Re: Life as a public school teacher in the San Francisco Bay Area in 2021

#746

Post by dntrkv »

candiodari wrote: post #737
dragonwriter wrote: post #736

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The problem with that is if you can’t fix their environment for 8 hours a day (most schools are more like 6 these days but for argument’s sake), and you propose fixing their environments 24 hours a day … No one is saying you can’t fix it for 8 hours a day, its saying that fixing the 8 hours a day environment doesn’t address the problem because that’s not the environment that’s brokenness is causing the problems.

Well, sure, but what you say "needs" fixing has a lot of problems: 1) it's double or quadruple the time (8/6 vs 24h) vs school 2) kids aren't arranged per 20 (or 40 these days). You really need someone in a location per 2/3 kids. So this is a non-starter, fixing the home environment. Plus current attempts to fix it, meaning mostly CPS, generally make things a LOT worse, make these kids far more toxic than they would…

I don't think this issue is solvable by the school. This is 100% an issue with the home. It's like having police attempt to solve the mental health crisis.

Re: Life as a public school teacher in the San Francisco Bay Area in 2021

#747

Post by silexia »

Institutions, like public schools, usually start out with the best of intentions. As the institution ages though, corruption sets in.

Administrators multiply like rabbits and obtain higher salaries, teachers unions prevent the firing of bad teachers, and politicians just go along with whatever items powerful special interests demand.

We should dissolve all public schools in their current form at a specific predetermined time, and have new educational institutions built. Then we should set up a recurring mechanism to dissolve completely the existing institution to allow for new innovations.

Re: Life as a public school teacher in the San Francisco Bay Area in 2021

#748

Post by Talanes »

toomuchtodo wrote: post #305
Talanes wrote: post #190

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>So what happens when you dumb down the only decent public high school for students to aim for? Vast swaths of the country get by without having any choices in high schools. The idea that need a selection of different schools with different levels of prestige and focuses is such an urban entitlement.

Not having better options doesn’t mean they don’t exist. For some parents, their children are their greatest investment, and they won’t accept a lesser educational environment even if superior options aren’t available in some geographies. If I need heart surgery, I’d rather be in NYC (Mount Sinai specifically) then BFE fly over country, and if I have the means I’m on the next flight. Same with education. Hard to find…

Good for those parents, but I don't think it's the job of society to optimize for the preferences of a small set of very involved parents. If anything we should optimize against them: bringing the gaps in school choice low enough that most parents won't prefer one over another anyway.

I also think there's a value to be had in having the over-acheivers and under-acheivers together in the same social setting of school, if not in the same classes.

Re: Life as a public school teacher in the San Francisco Bay Area in 2021

#749

Post by throwaway894345 »

teachrdan wrote: post #745
A4ET8a8uTh0 wrote: post #660

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But isn't it a good thing where birds of feather flock together? Just not being dragged down from low scoring kids is worth it. Why can't they select for criteria they are looking for?

In practice this means discriminating against students who are non-native English speakers, students with learning disabilities, etc. > Just not being dragged down from low scoring kids is worth it. It depends on the kind of society you want to live in. I would rather live in a society that prioritizes decreasing inequality rather than exacerbating it. https://www.jdsupra.com/legalnews/success-academy-charter-sc...

I could equally (and accurately) argue that in practice public school means discriminating against people by wealth, using zip code as a proxy.

And anyway, why would "discriminating based on competence" exacerbate inequality? Shouldn't competence-based discrimination lessen inequality e.g. by giving bright, poorer schools a shot at more prestigious institutions while financially-but-not-intellectually privileged kids move to more middling institutions?

Given the choice between wealth discrimination and merit discrimination, I would prefer the latter.

Re: Life as a public school teacher in the San Francisco Bay Area in 2021

#750

Post by candiodari »

dntrkv wrote: post #746
candiodari wrote: post #737

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, sure, but what you say "needs" fixing has a lot of problems: 1) it's double or quadruple the time (8/6 vs 24h) vs school 2) kids aren't arranged per 20 (or 40 these days). You really need someone in a location per 2/3 kids. So this is a non-starter, fixing the home environment. Plus current attempts to fix it, meaning mostly CPS, generally make things a LOT worse, make these kids far more toxic than they would…

I don't think this issue is solvable by the school. This is 100% an issue with the home. It's like having police attempt to solve the mental health crisis.

Well my point is that doesn't matter. We can't fix that. And what is impossible won't happen, therefore you must fix things somewhere, anywhere, else. That'll be school.
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