Wealthiest U.S. executives paid little to nothing in federal income taxes • Hacker News Board

Re: Wealthiest U.S. executives paid little to nothing in federal income taxes

#111

Post by germinalphrase » Mon, Jun 21, 2021, 3:05 PM UTC

runawaybottle wrote: post #80

Aqueous wrote: post #14

I'm a little baffled why there have been all these articles of this category recently. It's not news that you don't pay taxes on invested assets you hold and don't sell. That's how it works for everyone who invests their savings. This isn't a 'tax-avoidance' tactic - it's just what owning something is. Are we really advocating for a world where you are taxed just for appreciation? Maybe we are but at least be honest…

I personally don’t understand what collecting more taxes will even do for us. We are unable to agree on what to spend it on, so what’s the point. There won’t be universal healthcare or free college, and we mostly just send the money to social security, Medicare and defense, and our albatross education system. Stop collecting more taxes until we know what we want to spend it on.

I teach in a public high school. My gut instinct is that most “education” problems are actually education problems so much as manifestations of other social problems we are unwilling/unable to solve. Schools are just one of the few environments all Americans participate in (one way or another) so other problems become visible in a way they aren’t otherwise.

This is also why - in my non-expert opinion - the ‘high expectations’ and ‘full wrap around services’ educational models show positive impacts. They address (indirectly and directly) these externalities in a way that typical public school does not.

Re: Wealthiest U.S. executives paid little to nothing in federal income taxes

#112

Post by pwinnski » Mon, Jun 21, 2021, 3:07 PM UTC

Aqueous wrote: post #14

I'm a little baffled why there have been all these articles of this category recently. It's not news that you don't pay taxes on invested assets you hold and don't sell. That's how it works for everyone who invests their savings. This isn't a 'tax-avoidance' tactic - it's just what owning something is. Are we really advocating for a world where you are taxed just for appreciation? Maybe we are but at least be honest…

I think many people don't accept that explanation for the reason wealthy people aren't paying taxes, or don't accept it as complete.

For example, I don't pay taxes on the appreciation in my investment accounts, since I'm not spending that money, but I do pay taxes on my income, the money I'm actually spending. Meanwhile, some of the people identified by ProPublica are paying literally zero in taxes, and yet clearly spending more in a week or even day than I spend in a year.

THAT is what draws people to the story. "How does someone whose spending clearly outstrips mine by 10x or more pay less than I do in taxes?"

Re: Wealthiest U.S. executives paid little to nothing in federal income taxes

#113

Post by germinalphrase » Mon, Jun 21, 2021, 3:10 PM UTC

dayk995 wrote: post #86

I admit I don't know how this all works. But just a few naive questions: if these folks are taking out loans backed by the shares of their stock, how do you repay that loan without triggering a taxable event (ie selling shares). If we as a society want to prevent this from happening, can the government force the banks to raise the rates on these types of loans so it becomes less attractive for these individuals. The…

Apparently, you roll the original loan into a new loan until you die?

Re: Wealthiest U.S. executives paid little to nothing in federal income taxes

#114

Post by imtringued » Mon, Jun 21, 2021, 3:12 PM UTC

germinalphrase wrote: post #21

Aqueous wrote: post #14

I'm a little baffled why there have been all these articles of this category recently. It's not news that you don't pay taxes on invested assets you hold and don't sell. That's how it works for everyone who invests their savings. This isn't a 'tax-avoidance' tactic - it's just what owning something is. Are we really advocating for a world where you are taxed just for appreciation? Maybe we are but at least be honest…

“ It's not news that you don't pay taxes on invested assets you hold and don't sell.” Unless, of course, we’re talking about the only meaningful asset an average person might own -their house- then we tax its assessed value every year.

You can't hold onto land without an army.

Re: Wealthiest U.S. executives paid little to nothing in federal income taxes

#115

Post by imtringued » Mon, Jun 21, 2021, 3:14 PM UTC

Aqueous wrote: post #14

I'm a little baffled why there have been all these articles of this category recently. It's not news that you don't pay taxes on invested assets you hold and don't sell. That's how it works for everyone who invests their savings. This isn't a 'tax-avoidance' tactic - it's just what owning something is. Are we really advocating for a world where you are taxed just for appreciation? Maybe we are but at least be honest…

I honestly don't get it either. If you are jealous invest your money instead of hoarding it.

Re: Wealthiest U.S. executives paid little to nothing in federal income taxes

#116

Post by cptskippy » Mon, Jun 21, 2021, 3:16 PM UTC

imtringued wrote: post #115

Aqueous wrote: post #14

I'm a little baffled why there have been all these articles of this category recently. It's not news that you don't pay taxes on invested assets you hold and don't sell. That's how it works for everyone who invests their savings. This isn't a 'tax-avoidance' tactic - it's just what owning something is. Are we really advocating for a world where you are taxed just for appreciation? Maybe we are but at least be honest…

I honestly don't get it either. If you are jealous invest your money instead of hoarding it.

You're presuming these people have assets to invest.

Re: Wealthiest U.S. executives paid little to nothing in federal income taxes

#117

Post by seanmcdirmid » Mon, Jun 21, 2021, 3:21 PM UTC

germinalphrase wrote: post #110

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ya, but think if we had no property tax like China, it could be a lot worse.

Does China have a significant problem with supply-restricted housing being bought up and turned into rentals by investment firms?

No, rents are too low to be profitable (a $1 million apartment will only rent for $2k/month), and renovations decrease the value of the property (in China, you’ll often gut the apartment and redo the interior after purchase). They instead keep the apartments empty in the hope of selling them for a profit later.

Re: Wealthiest U.S. executives paid little to nothing in federal income taxes

#118

Post by runawaybottle » Mon, Jun 21, 2021, 3:26 PM UTC

germinalphrase wrote: post #111

runawaybottle wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I personally don’t understand what collecting more taxes will even do for us. We are unable to agree on what to spend it on, so what’s the point. There won’t be universal healthcare or free college, and we mostly just send the money to social security, Medicare and defense, and our albatross education system. Stop collecting more taxes until we know what we want to spend it on.

I teach in a public high school. My gut instinct is that most “education” problems are actually education problems so much as manifestations of other social problems we are unwilling/unable to solve. Schools are just one of the few environments all Americans participate in (one way or another) so other problems become visible in a way they aren’t otherwise. This is also why - in my non-expert opinion - the ‘high expe…

To your point, the same is true for policing. These things become the one funnel where all other problems get directed to (parenting, environment, media, etc), and just thrown into the laps of an institution that can’t make up for years of neglect or misguidance.

Re: Wealthiest U.S. executives paid little to nothing in federal income taxes

#119

Post by imtringued » Mon, Jun 21, 2021, 3:28 PM UTC

germinalphrase wrote: post #66

dankboys wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Indeed, taxes exist to keep the middle class down, we should switch to a flat tax.

A flat tax on what? Income? Wealth? I’m not against the idea so long as we make it progressive at the very bottom (though I understand my motivations there are explicitly moral ).

On money held in bank accounts. Call it a negative interest rate. Apply it to bank accounts above the insurance limit.

Edit: What happens if they invest their money? That's the moment you have won!

Re: Wealthiest U.S. executives paid little to nothing in federal income taxes

#120

Post by camel_Snake » Mon, Jun 21, 2021, 3:45 PM UTC

dayk995 wrote: post #86

I admit I don't know how this all works. But just a few naive questions: if these folks are taking out loans backed by the shares of their stock, how do you repay that loan without triggering a taxable event (ie selling shares). If we as a society want to prevent this from happening, can the government force the banks to raise the rates on these types of loans so it becomes less attractive for these individuals. The…

My understanding is the essentially take out loans indefinitely using their assets as collateral. Loans to pay back previous loans, etc.

The 'grift' is that when they die, their inheritors are able to sell off said collateral to pay off the debt avoiding any cap gains on those sales due to the step-up basis after death.