Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

China beats US in patent filings for second straight year

asia.nikkei.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

31–38 of 38 posts

Re: China beats US in patent filings for second straight year

#31

Post by imtringued »

birdyrooster wrote: post #23
pacman2 wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Dude. I just submitted two patents. Patents are the only way a small company can get an edge. And yes, there is more than software and IT in this world. Good luck to raise non IT capital in tech without patents.

Even if the patents are accepted, you will still have to defend it in court because other patents could have been filed earlier which have significant overlap of your patented idea which could invalidate everything. I have personally seen engineers getting patents granted for technology which is obviously already in use elsewhere and is already patented. USPTO is a joke especially for software based inventions. I jus…

Interesting so patents do not offer legal protection. They offer you a promise of legal protection and that promise is very weak.

If the patent office can't do its job then how is the system supposed to work?

Re: China beats US in patent filings for second straight year

#33

Post by loceng »

imtringued wrote: post #31
birdyrooster wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even if the patents are accepted, you will still have to defend it in court because other patents could have been filed earlier which have significant overlap of your patented idea which could invalidate everything. I have personally seen engineers getting patents granted for technology which is obviously already in use elsewhere and is already patented. USPTO is a joke especially for software based inventions. I jus…

Interesting so patents do not offer legal protection. They offer you a promise of legal protection and that promise is very weak. If the patent office can't do its job then how is the system supposed to work?

It's part of the legal-lawyer industrial complex - which ties into VC-finance industrial complex.

Re: China beats US in patent filings for second straight year

#34

Post by pacman2 »

imtringued wrote: post #31
birdyrooster wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even if the patents are accepted, you will still have to defend it in court because other patents could have been filed earlier which have significant overlap of your patented idea which could invalidate everything. I have personally seen engineers getting patents granted for technology which is obviously already in use elsewhere and is already patented. USPTO is a joke especially for software based inventions. I jus…

Interesting so patents do not offer legal protection. They offer you a promise of legal protection and that promise is very weak. If the patent office can't do its job then how is the system supposed to work?

The USPTO checks for prior art. The result is not set in stone but if they don't find prior art then they grant the patent. The patent can then still be challenged in court by other companies.

Re: China beats US in patent filings for second straight year

#35

Post by pacman2 »

betaby wrote: post #18
pacman2 wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No. Lets take the most extreme example. Medicine. Development and clinical trials cost you more than a billion. Why would I risk this? I let you develop it, I let you do the clinical trials and then just copy it. Even better. I can always sell cheaper than you since I don't have to recover investment costs. The patents are the only incentives for the investors to accept the risk.

> Why would I risk this? Because you don't. Most of the medical research in the world is government sponsored (yes, including USA).

This is wrong. It is correct for early stage. Compared with clinical trials, early stage costs nothing.

Re: China beats US in patent filings for second straight year

#36

Post by pacman2 »

betaby wrote: post #25
seibelj wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My wife has worked for a series of VC funded immunotherapy startups. No government money funding them. If there were no biotech patents it’s hard for me to see why anyone would invest hundreds of millions into these tiny companies. The money doesn’t go to salaries - it goes to equipment, supplies, and trials. Central planners spending other people’s money cannot possibly compete with the private system.

Your example is anecdotal, while search shows that most of the medical research is gov money via universities.

So? A tiny fraction. Of the one billion development cost, how much is early research, done in universities?

You have no idea about this industry. Or for the noob: development costs are tiny compared to costs in clinical trials.

There are some interesting compounds. Dichloroacetate for example. Not patent protected. Feel free to start your own clinical trial tomorrow. :-)

Re: China beats US in patent filings for second straight year

#37

Post by OldHand2018 »

imtringued wrote: post #31
birdyrooster wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even if the patents are accepted, you will still have to defend it in court because other patents could have been filed earlier which have significant overlap of your patented idea which could invalidate everything. I have personally seen engineers getting patents granted for technology which is obviously already in use elsewhere and is already patented. USPTO is a joke especially for software based inventions. I jus…

Interesting so patents do not offer legal protection. They offer you a promise of legal protection and that promise is very weak. If the patent office can't do its job then how is the system supposed to work?

> Interesting so patents do not offer legal protection.

There are generally two legal fields related to patents - patent prosecution (getting the patent) and patent litigation (fighting in court). There is not very much overlap between the lawyers; each is very specialized.

People get patents for a lot of different reasons, only one of which is to hold up in court. If that’s what you want, you have to hire lawyers that will make that happen. It costs more money and takes more time, but if you want a patent that holds up in court you have to hire the right people to write it correctly, from the very beginning of the process.

Again, this is not what everyone wants. Most patents are intended to be for defensive, negotiation, or vanity purposes - the expense involved with making it bulletproof is just not worth it.

Re: China beats US in patent filings for second straight year

#38

Post by Abishek_Muthian »

refurb wrote: post #21
errantmind wrote: post #12

Abolish patents. This is worth a read: The Case Against Patents http://research.stlouisfed.org/wp/2012/2012-035.pdf/

No thanks, I like having new cancer treatment available. That paper seems to focus entirely on tech.

And if that treatment costs $80,000 per session its likely due to the patents as well.
Post reply on HN