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Japan's government plans to encourage 4-day workweek, but experts split

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Re: Japan's government plans to encourage 4-day workweek, but experts split

#351

Post by garden_hermit »

greyman wrote: post #348
onion2k wrote: post #213

I think a lot of the replies in the thread so far have focused on tech (understandably, this is HN after all) but that's missing something obvious - the 4 day week would apply to everyone. In tech it's very likely someone going from 5 days to 4 days could still achieve the same amount of actual work. As other commenters have said, many tech workers don't do productive work all the time they're present. Retail workers…

What I find fascinating is why government should have such an authority to be able to mandate this.

"encourage"

Re: Japan's government plans to encourage 4-day workweek, but experts split

#352

Post by arcturus17 »

SilverRed wrote: post #268
ineedasername wrote: post #256

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Our country is wealthy enough That's really going to depend on the business. Plenty of businesses-- specifically ones with a lot of customer-facing staff-- would not be able to sustain labor cost increases up to 20%. To take an easy example where I already know the #'s in the US, labor costs at a fast-food restaurant are around 25% of costs. Net profit margins range from 5% up to around 20%, but that top end is for M…

It doesn't matter as long as all competitors have to do the same. The price of a burger could go up and it wouldn't matter as long as every other burger goes up the same amount.

So consumers end up paying more for goods, while salaries remain the same.

Surely you appreciate how that’s a problem?

Re: Japan's government plans to encourage 4-day workweek, but experts split

#353

Post by bellyfullofbac »

AlbertoGP wrote: post #330
Tabular-Iceberg wrote: post #299

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My pet conspiracy theory is that Toyota's liberal knowledge sharing with competitors is really a psy-op to keep the competitors perpetually on the edge of ruin while they laugh all the way to the bank. They don't even have to be deceptive about it. Just in time is obviously about not having undue spare capacity, not about not having any spare capacity at all. But Toyota knows this nuance is going to be lost on buzzwo…

I’ve heard recently (in a video that I don’t know how to find again) that that’s exactly what happened with the automotive industry’s chip shortage: Toyota was the only one that built a stock of chips in advance, and now are the only ones that can keep producing cars without being limited by the shortage. Edit: found the video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b1JlYZQG3lI&t=804s At 13 min. 24 seconds: > Just in time i…

I thought I'd rather watch the video than read your long transcript, I clicked it, it's Wendover with his weird speech pattern (some syllables loud, some syllables he runs through, but some vowels he drawls on...).

> Just IN tiime, is such a SIMple principlee, but the purSUIT of the ELIMination of waste...

Tab closed, thanks for the transcript.

Re: Japan's government plans to encourage 4-day workweek, but experts split

#354

Post by andyferris »

jstummbillig wrote: post #225
dopidopHN wrote: post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of course I would be willing to reduce my yearly salary for 2 or 3 weeks of extra time. Should not be that hard. It’s worth more than the proportional time I would take off. It’s very valuable to me. Like 5k / week would be a good price tag. I have no debt and more stuff than I need. Now let’s me enjoy life while I still can ( and keep working on that job that I actually enjoy ) I’m not sure to understand about the n…

The crux here is, of course, that one week of your time is a lot more valuable than 5k to your employer if they pay you 3.7k per week, and probably a lot more than you would be willing to part with or find reasonable (think 20k+ a week) It's a pretty infuriating setup. From the employers perspective, the amount of money you lose by having someone not work is so obscene, so quickly, that you have to fight your monkey…

Honest question: why does it “cost” the employer so much to have you on leave?

I heard this argument in North America but not here in Australia. I mean, small businesses might require critical people at critical times, but generally in larger orgs this shouldn’t be too hard.

Re: Japan's government plans to encourage 4-day workweek, but experts split

#355

Post by nextstep »

skhr0680 wrote: post #184

The social contract in Japan was that you’d give your life to your employer in exchange for a fair wage and stable employment until you retired. Neither of those things are true now. Wages are low and companies either ignore their legal obligations or hire people as contractors, who have less rights than full time “employees”. Now, many people, especially women* and young people are finding that it’s possible to run…

This erosion of the collective belief in this social contract is true for much of the western world as well, where wages have been flat for 40+ years while productivity skyrocketed.

Re: Japan's government plans to encourage 4-day workweek, but experts split

#356

Post by MomoXenosaga »

adamlett wrote: post #287
franciscop wrote: post #272

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's what the market demands in the end of the day and why I don't understand Japan too much (yet). If a company hires 4 people just for road signaling, and another 0, I'd hire the second one since it's going to be cheaper. That's why I believe these market forces push to at-capacity, because if someone has spare capacity or a lot of profit another company is going to come in at a lower margin and win the market. Yes…

Isn’t it oversimplifying it to suggest that all “the market” rewards is low prices? Doesn’t the market also sometimes reward quality and timeliness?

Companies like Action, IKEA and Amazon thrive on low prices and efficiency.

Re: Japan's government plans to encourage 4-day workweek, but experts split

#357

Post by MomoXenosaga »

SilverRed wrote: post #269
fy20 wrote: post #262

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most of these customer facing jobs will be abandoned or optimised away in the next few decades. Front desk work could be done away with mostly by electronic systems (most of the time when I "check in" it's just picking up a ready made room card as I checked in online). You could even centralise the "talking to a human" part in a call center operating a number of hotels, who delegate to staff on the premises (house ke…

As far as I can see. These front desk jobs exist as theft/crime deterrent and to handle edge cases. Sure you could fully automate fuel stations but who is going to call the police when kids start spray painting the windows unless you have someone sitting at a desk watching cctv all day. And who is going to deal with customers who are trying to report something is wrong with a pump. These jobs have already been automa…

I kinda feel some countries care a lot about full employment. How they can afford it is beyond me though.

Re: Japan's government plans to encourage 4-day workweek, but experts split

#358

Post by totetsu »

EE84M3i wrote: post #74

I think people might be a little confused about what the government is telegraphing here. Japanese labour regulations are very strict, in particular around hours worked. Basically all employees (yes, including engineers) need to clock in and out, the concept of a "salaried worker" doesn't really exist, although normally engineers are paid for a certain number of hours regardless if they are actually worked. Primarily…

I wonder what this will mean for all those teaching contracts that come in at 30mins short of a "full time" job, for the purposes of the company not having to pay benefits..

Re: Japan's government plans to encourage 4-day workweek, but experts split

#359

Post by emteycz »

yakireev wrote: post #181
ryanSrich wrote: post #177

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s certainly not perfect, but I genuinely think it’s much better than being an FTE anywhere else. Of course I’m biased. I mentioned benefits in another post, so I wouldn’t say it’s gig economy. What other environment could give a developer $100+/hr, ability to make their own schedule, and essentially all legal protections to work on side projects, work for other companies, etc. at the same time? Is it for everyone?…

I did not imply that your company is an Amazon warehouse, I'm sorry if it sounded like that. But if this "hourly wage for hourly work and nothing else" becomes a norm, that's what we'll eventually get, I'm afraid.

It's what we want. I wouldn't work any other way ever again. I don't think FTE jobs are going anywhere (companies always push to have us as FTE, not the other way around), let us be.

Re: Japan's government plans to encourage 4-day workweek, but experts split

#360

Post by toomanybeersies »

ehnto wrote: post #335
akiselev wrote: post #333

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> From my experience visiting, there were lots of jobs that were "nice to have". Like the man making sure people don't fall in the hole, or the person standing by the carpark exit making sure the way is clear. You could probably do without them, but it's a nice thing to have. How would liability play out for the construction company in a Japanese court? It's already a low margin competitive industry so passing risk m…

I don't know the answer to that sorry, you're right to point it out though. Perhaps there is actually some prior court case that defined a liability to make those individuals necessary to be compliant. In Australia we certainly don't have those people, construction companies just use a few signs, some cones and barricades and that's all that is required to be compliant. If someone falls in the hole they shouldn't hav…

> In Australia we certainly don't have those people

Not the case in Victoria. Pretty normal to see a couple of workers standing near the site entrance making sure pedestrians don't get run over by a truck. Or standing in front of a closed footpath, directing pedestrians to cross the road.

There's pretty strict rules around keeping the public out of construction sites and excavations. Putting a couple of cones around a hole is definitely not all that's required.

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