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Japan's government plans to encourage 4-day workweek, but experts split

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Re: Japan's government plans to encourage 4-day workweek, but experts split

#321

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's what the market demands in the end of the day and why I don't understand Japan too much (yet). If a company hires 4 people just for road signaling, and another 0, I'd hire the second one since it's going to be cheaper. That's why I believe these market forces push to at-capacity, because if someone has spare capacity or a lot of profit another company is going to come in at a lower margin and win the market. Yes…

Isn’t it oversimplifying it to suggest that all “the market” rewards is low prices? Doesn’t the market also sometimes reward quality and timeliness?

I would do some nitpicking here: The market _rewards_ low prices. But the market _punishes_ low quality and untimeliness.

Why do I phrase it this way? Because the only market mechanism is a sale, you either buy or you don't. Low price is visible before a sale, so a new sale is reward for the low price offered. Quality and timeliness are only apparent after a sale, so can only be punished retroactively by not buying again.

The punishment signal is also far weaker than the reward signal, lots of goods are not bought too often and problems get forgotten by customers, alternatives may have their own problems, etc. And prices can be compared objectively for standardized goods, and at least easily for other goods. Quality and timeliness are often in the eye of the beholder, subject to variation. Comparisons in those areas are also systematically prevented by most vendors.

Re: Japan's government plans to encourage 4-day workweek, but experts split

#323

Uruguay they tried that: people ended up working two jobs and feeling/looking tired on both! People will find a way, always. Just keep 40h - at least they won't try to find a 2nd job elsewhere...

I think we eventually have to move to a 4 day work week because of employment. Switching to a 4 day work week creates jobs. The work will not be less when you switch to 4 days and to compensate you have to hire more people.

Even in Europe we have countries with a high rate of unemployment among young people.

Re: Japan's government plans to encourage 4-day workweek, but experts split

#324
post #247

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sometimes I think what passes for appropriately staffed in the West is actually understaffed. What's called optimal staffing in the West is just at capacity, which is a nice way of saying "with no spare capacity." Of course, with Japan being the land of just-in-time, one could argue that spare capacity is bad -- but that's an oversimplification. Necessary spare capacity is good. What's bad is not being able to addres…

It's what the market demands in the end of the day and why I don't understand Japan too much (yet). If a company hires 4 people just for road signaling, and another 0, I'd hire the second one since it's going to be cheaper. That's why I believe these market forces push to at-capacity, because if someone has spare capacity or a lot of profit another company is going to come in at a lower margin and win the market. Yes…

> I'd hire the second one since it's going to be cheaper.

You would. But the guy doing the hiring is just giving the job to his drinking buddy, sure that the favor will come back in some way or the other.

There’s also the social factor to consider. These extra people could be superfluous, but if they’re not there everyone walking past will condemn that construction site as being unsafe.

Re: Japan's government plans to encourage 4-day workweek, but experts split

#325
I worked in Japan for a while. My contract was saying 28.5 hours per week, but I was expected to work 40 hours+. This is where I went into discussions with my boss who was very angry at me and fired me on the same say I told him that I was expecting to work the hours that were mentioned in the contract. I had to clean up the desk and leave immediatly after that meeting.

Then I got in touch with the officials and lawyers. Labor law IS already strong in Japan, but it is the employees who do not demand it and the employers who do not follow it. The officials are running many campaigns to advertise equality and proper working hours. Just nobody cares.

Long story short - I got my salary paid ouf for a couple of months and could stay in Japan. Best time of my life and this is the way you should experience Japan: live there, DO NOT work, have enough money to support a certain lifestyle.

Now I am back to Germany and I am happy that I have a decently paid, low stress 40 hours work week, 100% home office, many perks, I am practially unfireable, 32 holidays per year and a worker friendly corporate culture.

Re: Japan's government plans to encourage 4-day workweek, but experts split

#326
post #247

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I fully agree with your comment overall, but as someone who lives in Japan I'd like to point out that specifically "people who fill in the holes in roads" is a running joke in Japan since small street constructions always seem way over-staffed. It's amazing because they do finish a lot faster than in western countries, but you can definitely remove 20% of the people in street-level construction and would see little d…

Sometimes I think what passes for appropriately staffed in the West is actually understaffed. What's called optimal staffing in the West is just at capacity, which is a nice way of saying "with no spare capacity." Of course, with Japan being the land of just-in-time, one could argue that spare capacity is bad -- but that's an oversimplification. Necessary spare capacity is good. What's bad is not being able to addres…

From my experience visiting, there were lots of jobs that were "nice to have". Like the man making sure people don't fall in the hole, or the person standing by the carpark exit making sure the way is clear. You could probably do without them, but it's a nice thing to have.

There's lots of examples of that, people doing things that you would see brutally optimized out of western city and those cities I feel are worse off for that optimization.

One way to look at it is that with their wealth they've decided to employ more people and do more good, versus pocketing the profit and calling it efficiency.

The famous railway networks in Japan are actually privatized rail companies which was very surprising to me. When the rail companies privatized in my country they immediately became worse, as they were suddenly serving a very different purpose. Staff were let go, the trains are cleaned less often, services were cut. That kind of thing.

Re: Japan's government plans to encourage 4-day workweek, but experts split

#327

I think a lot of the replies in the thread so far have focused on tech (understandably, this is HN after all) but that's missing something obvious - the 4 day week would apply to everyone. In tech it's very likely someone going from 5 days to 4 days could still achieve the same amount of actual work. As other commenters have said, many tech workers don't do productive work all the time they're present. Retail workers…

People are still going to work more efficient when they work 32 instead of 40 hours in many jobs as fatigue sets in at some point.

No because they will change the number of days not of working hours.

Re: Japan's government plans to encourage 4-day workweek, but experts split

#328

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People are still going to work more efficient when they work 32 instead of 40 hours in many jobs as fatigue sets in at some point.

No, there are jobs where you do rote things on demand or at particular intervals with no fatigue at 40 hours per week. Examples from my own employment experience: - front desk clerk at a hotel - fuel pump operator Both of these are pretty dull work that doesn’t exhaust you at all at the 40 hour work week. Most of the time is spent idle and the time spent working doesn’t require much going on upstairs.

I have done a job that was 80% dull work. I can guarantee you I have never been more exhausted when I came home from work. Don't ask me how it works, but doing 'nothing' can be extremely tiring. And this was a desk job.

Re: Japan's government plans to encourage 4-day workweek, but experts split

#329
post #321

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn’t it oversimplifying it to suggest that all “the market” rewards is low prices? Doesn’t the market also sometimes reward quality and timeliness?

I would do some nitpicking here: The market _rewards_ low prices. But the market _punishes_ low quality and untimeliness. Why do I phrase it this way? Because the only market mechanism is a sale, you either buy or you don't. Low price is visible before a sale, so a new sale is reward for the low price offered. Quality and timeliness are only apparent after a sale, so can only be punished retroactively by not buying a…

> Why do I phrase it this way? Because the only market mechanism is a sale, you either buy or you don't.

That's not always true. When a rail network gets privatized, the argument is that the market will make sure it's a good service still. But they are usually paid by the government, not the patrons. The commuters vote becomes negligible, and the rail network has every incentive to optimize for a minimum viable network that meets their government set targets while the service gets worse and worse in all other metrics. Seats are shittier, service is less clean, graffiti stacks up, railstock gets rickety etc.

Re: Japan's government plans to encourage 4-day workweek, but experts split

#330
post #247

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sometimes I think what passes for appropriately staffed in the West is actually understaffed. What's called optimal staffing in the West is just at capacity, which is a nice way of saying "with no spare capacity." Of course, with Japan being the land of just-in-time, one could argue that spare capacity is bad -- but that's an oversimplification. Necessary spare capacity is good. What's bad is not being able to addres…

My pet conspiracy theory is that Toyota's liberal knowledge sharing with competitors is really a psy-op to keep the competitors perpetually on the edge of ruin while they laugh all the way to the bank. They don't even have to be deceptive about it. Just in time is obviously about not having undue spare capacity, not about not having any spare capacity at all. But Toyota knows this nuance is going to be lost on buzzwo…

I’ve heard recently (in a video that I don’t know how to find again) that that’s exactly what happened with the automotive industry’s chip shortage: Toyota was the only one that built a stock of chips in advance, and now are the only ones that can keep producing cars without being limited by the shortage.

Edit: found the video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b1JlYZQG3lI&t=804s

At 13 min. 24 seconds:

> Just in time is such a simple principle, but the pursuit of the elimination of waste is now the central mission of any major manufacturer.

> However, most did it wrong. Manufacturers globally saw the headline “elimination of inventory leads to massive efficiency gains” and jumped on that without actually determining what made it work for Toyota.

> They ignored that Japan's small physical size made for short domestic supply chains, less vulnerable to things going wrong.

> They ignored the company's production leveling: finding the average daily demand and producing that regardless of short-term changes and demands.

> They ignored the fact that eliminating excess inventory is different from eliminating all inventory.

> They ignored the principle of growing strong teams of cross-functional workers predicated on respecting people.

> They ignored the culture of stopping and fixing problems to get things right the first time.

> They ignored huge swaths of the Toyota Way and created a system that’s less effective and less resilient but can impress shareholders through short-term savings.

> How Toyota has effectively implemented this system fills books but many are just reading the covers.

> Even Toyota though is not perfect.

> In 2011 japan was rocked by a 9.0 magnitude earthquake the fourth strongest ever recorded anywhere. Not only did this cause immense destruction to life and property but it also led Toyota to recognize a flaw in its own system.

> As japan recovered some supply chains were quick to as well. For example, securing plastic resin for door panel production is not difficult: there are plenty of manufacturers globally creating easily substitutable alternatives.

> That’s not the case with, say, semiconductors: the hugely expensive facilities that create these chips require years to construct and after the 2011 earthquake it took many months to mend them back to operating status.

> This surfaced a truth that had never been fully considered: not all supply chains are made equal. Plastic resin can handle supply chain disruption, semiconductors cannot. Therefore Toyota made changes: all along, their mission was not to eliminate inventory full stop; it was to eliminate excess inventory.

> Supply chain disruption is inevitable. It's inevitable in the same way that Titanic's flawed design would eventually encounter an iceberg, or the structural economic vulnerabilities of 2008 would eventually collide with a market panic. Therefore semiconductor inventory is not excess because inevitably, due to the inevitability of disruption, excess semiconductor inventory will eventually become necessary.

> Recognizing this, Toyota in recent years has started to build up a stockpile of two to six months worth of chips and that's why the company is the only major vehicle manufacturer that is unfazed by the semiconductor shortage.

> Toyota followed its own principles. It did not stray from them, and it did not reinvent them. It’s no surprise that Toyota excels at implementing its own system, but it is a surprise that the entire manufacturing world has so wholeheartedly embraced flawed implementation of the system.

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