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A dwarf planet coming within 11 AU of the sun over the next 10 years

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Re: A dwarf planet coming within 11 AU of the sun over the next 10 years

#261
post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That seems awfully weird. Is that something that things orbiting the sun normally do?

My intuition is that anything with a really eccentric orbit (10s to 10s of thousands of AU) has more of a chance of passing through many gravitational fields that change its orbit.

I suppose that makes sense... if something is in an orbit that's flattened down until it's only slightly off from being a straight line in and out, then any very slight perturbations could really affect how close it comes to the sun on the next pass.

The sun moves too a little bit, due to the pull of the planets. Maybe it's enough to make a difference?

Re: A dwarf planet coming within 11 AU of the sun over the next 10 years

#262

I say we catch that sucker, tow it into our neck of the woods as a second moon, and use it as a space port. Are there a million problems with this proposal? Yes. But would it be totally rad to do this? Also yes.

Can we give the moon a moon instead?

Re: A dwarf planet coming within 11 AU of the sun over the next 10 years

#263
post #23

Is this something we could plan and manage to launch an orbiter/lander to in time? Has anyone thought about the possibility of slapping something like a telescope on that and letting it beam back data and images from veryyyyy far out eventually?

Landing a telescope on it would only make sense if orbits around it are highly unstable (like our moon) and if the dwarf planet was geothermally active so energy on the surface would be "easy" to extract (which comes with it's own set of headaches). Orbiting it with a "big for space probes" camera would most likely give us more interesting data.

Using the plant as a Coronagraph if orbiting far out is another interesting idea, but using a near earth astroid would be a better idea as the telescope could be powered by solar panels they.

Re: A dwarf planet coming within 11 AU of the sun over the next 10 years

#264

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Slowing it down would take way more energy than just nudging in a different direction. You might be better off trying to break it up into smaller pieces.

Taking notes.... Small pieces... uh ha, yep got it,.. Slow it down... yep. What else?

Make sure they hit at a safe distance from our Mars rovers, I like them.

Re: A dwarf planet coming within 11 AU of the sun over the next 10 years

#265

Ok. I got really excited by the title. But the diameter of the planet is about 130 km, so its tiny. Maybe "fat asteroid" is a better term than "dwarf planet" ?

I don't think we should be shaming asteroids in this way - how about "gravitationally challenged"?

Re: A dwarf planet coming within 11 AU of the sun over the next 10 years

#267
post #178

I say we catch that sucker, tow it into our neck of the woods as a second moon, and use it as a space port. Are there a million problems with this proposal? Yes. But would it be totally rad to do this? Also yes.

What sort of propulsion mechanisms (even those that are currently physically plausible but entirely outside our technology, so, for example, solar sails or nuclear torchships, but not, say, warp drive) could possibly be used to achieve such a task?

Just for fun, I did some ballpark calculations. Let's consider the simpler problem of just putting 2014 UN271 into a circular orbit around the sun at its periapsis of 11 AU.

Calculating the exact path of an orbiting body under thrust is difficult. But the object will be within 1% of the desired orbital radius for roughly a 22-degree arc of its orbit centered on the periapsis, during which time its path will be closely approximated by a circular arc 648 million km long.

Let's say that over the course of this arc, we want to slow it from its initial speed of 12.7 km/s to the required circular orbital speed of 9.0 km/s. That means we need a continuous deceleration of roughly 0.00006 m/s^2 over a period of 2 years.

Assume that we'll produce this thrust by launching material from the object into space using mass drivers. By the Tsiolkovsky rocket equation, the smaller the fraction of the object that we want to use as reaction mass, the larger our "exhaust" velocity has to be. If we want to only lose 10% of the total starting mass, we need our exhaust velocity to be about 10x the total desired delta-V -- that is, 37 km/s, or roughly 0.01% the speed of light. This is a tall order, but let's say we can somehow solve the engineering problems and build a linear accelerator that can get rocks moving that fast.

Assume the object is 160 km in diameter and made entirely of ice, giving it a total mass of about 2.0e18 kg. The total required momentum change is therefore about 7.5e21 kg m/s, and the required energy input is 1.4e26 J. If we assume constant thrust for two years, this means we would have to launch about 3.2 million tons of material per second, averaging out to 2.2 exawatts of power required.

To put this number in perspective, it's several million times higher than the average electricity generation of the entire planet Earth. To generate this much power using 100%-efficient solar panels, at a distance of 11 AU from the sun, you would need a solar array approximately half the diameter of the sun itself.

So a direct propulsion approach, at least, doesn't really seem like it's within the realm of feasibility.

Re: A dwarf planet coming within 11 AU of the sun over the next 10 years

#268

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A thread of people discussing pronunciations without saying where they are from or using IPA is a pointless waste of time. You may as well be talking about what time it is by posting “well, it’s dark here!”

It doesn’t really matter where you’re from. If you pronounce Uranus as your-anus you are pronouncing it wrong.

Not how language works dude.

Re: A dwarf planet coming within 11 AU of the sun over the next 10 years

#269

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Slowing it down would take way more energy than just nudging in a different direction. You might be better off trying to break it up into smaller pieces.

how would we aerobreak it in mars's atmosphere into a decaying orbit, so instead of slamming into mars, it breaks up and rains down on mars? What can we tell about the composition - a solid rock or icy rubble?

You get it into an orbit that will have several close encounters with Mars or other planets with atmosphere and you do a bit of aerobraking/thrusting on each pass.

Re: A dwarf planet coming within 11 AU of the sun over the next 10 years

#270
post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What sort of propulsion mechanisms (even those that are currently physically plausible but entirely outside our technology, so, for example, solar sails or nuclear torchships, but not, say, warp drive) could possibly be used to achieve such a task?

Just for fun, I did some ballpark calculations. Let's consider the simpler problem of just putting 2014 UN271 into a circular orbit around the sun at its periapsis of 11 AU. Calculating the exact path of an orbiting body under thrust is difficult. But the object will be within 1% of the desired orbital radius for roughly a 22-degree arc of its orbit centered on the periapsis, during which time its path will be closel…

Yeah probably better off with a project Orion type approach.
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