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Massachusetts health notifications app installed without users’ knowledge

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Re: Massachusetts health notifications app installed without users’ knowledge

#381

Post by trulyme »

Quanttek wrote: post #368
trulyme wrote: post #364

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I fail to see the difference. You say it doesn't use GPS, but then continue to say that it uses location data (and thus, I assume, GPS). So which is it? Or are you saying that the app doesn't receive the user location data, only Google does?

Neither the App nor Google use location data. However, Google still prompts your for these permissions because, in their mind, the swapping of rotating IDs presents an indirect way of tracking somebody's location (although that data is solely stays on the device and is never transferred, unless a positive person decides to upload the list of IDs there were in contact with)

Thank you for the clarification! So the app does use location data, but it is (maybe?) not uploaded.

Re: Massachusetts health notifications app installed without users’ knowledge

#382

Post by twoknee »

marcan_42 wrote: post #95
thinkingemote wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the low adoption is because it's hard to explain. No one on my street, none of the most vulnerable people would understand your paragraph. No wonder it's not being adopted by those who should be adopting it, but just being used by vigilant young tech savvy and already covid safe people. So not only are only a small number of people using it, these people are least likely to make a difference using it.

Edit: Surely we can come up with a more approachable explanation for less technical folks, though? Here's an attempt: "Contact tracing respects your privacy and does not send your location to the cloud. Instead, your phone makes up a new random name every 15 minutes and broadcasts it to nearby phones. It remembers the last two weeks of names it used, as well as the last two weeks of names it heard from other phones.…

I prefer token over name, otherwise I think it's decent.

Here's my crack at it for fun:

Exposure Notification apps are a privacy preserving technology to help prevent the spread of COVID-19.

They don't collect or log any location data which is what makes them private.

Instead, a phone equipped with the app will continuously log and broadcast random tokens that change every 15 minutes.

Nearby phones with the app will take note of the token and the signal strength, while broadcasting a token of their own.

Each day the app downloads a public list of tokens that have been shared by people who have tested positive for COVID-19.

If your phone has been around a number of these tokens, it will notify you to get tested and self-isolate.

If you test positive for COVID-19 yourself, your doctor will give you a key to enter into the app. Entering the key will upload your tokens to the public list.

While exposure notification apps do preserve privacy, they are limited in effectiveness without widespread adoption. Additionally they are not a suitable replacement for traditional contact tracing.

Re: Massachusetts health notifications app installed without users’ knowledge

#383

Post by themusicgod1 »

de6u99er wrote: post #105
ElViajero wrote: post #56

It is obvious that we need better legislation to deal with all the new possibilities that technologies have opened. The installation of this app, even done with good intent, open a lot of questions on what should be possible or not to be done by government and corporations. When you get a device with pre-installed, uninstallable, or auto-installed apps. What are the rules? > "By enabling this service, you can be quic…

> It is obvious that we need better legislation to deal with all the new possibilities that technologies have opened. How about applying common sense?

Or how about people just use GNU instead of GAFAM crapware? Turn "silently installing things in the background" off by default and maintain user control over all their hardware.

It's not like Richard Stallman hasn't been warning of this sort of thing happening for decades - the GNU project exists for a reason, and we should use their code for general purpose computing.

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=25402024

Re: Massachusetts health notifications app installed without users’ knowledge

#384

Post by marvindanig »

tunap wrote: post #234
marvindanig wrote: post #222

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, given that a significant percentage of citizenry is anti-vaxxer-level-stupid, there isn't much improvement over people trusting their local Government either…

Considering in a not too distant yesterday(pre-Covid) the "anti-vaxxers" were all liberal/granola types and now they are magically all conservative/racist types, perhaps you may want to re-assess your 2-dimensional view of the real world. I believe a cogent example was on the front-page of HN just a day or two ago, but IANYG.

lol. I never mentioned the political leanings of the anti-vaxxer type; just that they are either very stupid people or misinformed by propaganda originating somewhere. it's interesting to see multiple downvotes on my comments from the folks who probably saw what's not written up there, just like you did. the "conservative/racist type" you said?

quick question: what made you put the labels conservative and racist together?

also, a liberal eating granola bar might be stupid, but their actions do not put anyone else in danger. an anti-vaxxer however is a risk to the society in that they are an active and potential host to a disease in circulation.

Re: Massachusetts health notifications app installed without users’ knowledge

#385

Post by shados »

nverno wrote: post #318
shados wrote: post #197

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know what kind of proof you want, but I just looked at my phone settings after reading your comment. The exposure notification option is there and it's off. The region selection is grayed out because of it. Yet I got the app (uninstalled it after I saw this on hacker news). I did get a notification when it got installed but I thought it was just a push similar to amber alerts. I didn't realize it installed so…

I'm in Boston and it wasn't installed on my phone (exposure notifications have always been off AFAIK). I'm on old iphone 5s, not sure if that makes a difference or maybe just specific areas? According to this, https://thesomervillenewsweekly.blog/2021/04/05/massnotify-a... , different cities were piloting at different times, although it all seems opt in.

The submission is specifically about a google play app being auto pushed, so being on an iphone would certainly protect you from it :)

Re: Massachusetts health notifications app installed without users’ knowledge

#386

Post by kQq9oHeAz6wLLS »

NoImmatureAdHom wrote: post #370
KronisLV wrote: post #347

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here's my phone: https://www.gsmarena.com/ulefone_armor_x7_pro-10293.php It's not supported by CalyxOS: https://calyxos.org/get/ It's not supported by GrapheneOS: https://grapheneos.org/faq#supported-devices It's not supported by LineageOS: https://download.lineageos.org/ It's not supported by Sailfish: https://shop.jolla.com/ It's not supported by Replicant: https://www.replicant.us/supported-devices.php Librem 5 is…

It looks like you can get a used Pixel 3a for ~$100: https://www.ebay.com/sch/i.html?_nkw=pixel+3a&_sacat=0&LH_Ti... (this is US ebay, but I assume prices are similar) I think Calyx still supports Pixel 2, but you've got to trade off the likely length of continuing support against price, of course.

I specifically bought a Pixel 3 recently because it had LineageOS support. Never again will I buy a phone that's locked into the manufacturer's Android releases.

Re: Massachusetts health notifications app installed without users’ knowledge

#387

Post by esyir »

kn1ght wrote: post #93
esyir wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This sounds worse to me? Rather than violation of a relatively small privacy (phone number), you instead get timestamp social graph interactions in the physical world. This seems like fat more extreme an invasion than the former.

The whole protocol was designed very cleverly from the start to avoid all the privacy blocks that might inhibit people from using it [1], because the main drawback in this is that it's completely useless unless you have a critical mass of users that actually use it. It is very difficult to explain to people that are not curious about the technology and all they hear is 'tracing = tracking = no privacy'. I imagine thi…

That's fascinating, I wasn't aware that they actually did that to allow for semi private tracing.

That's going to be hell to explain though, as you've already mentioned.

Re: Massachusetts health notifications app installed without users’ knowledge

#388

Post by ViViDboarder »

KronisLV wrote: post #347
NoImmatureAdHom wrote: post #246

Fellow humans, there are alternatives! Your neck need not be under FAANG's boot! You don't even need to give up any functionality: CalyxOS: https://calyxos.org/ Privacy-respecting Android distribution that replaces Google spyware with MicroG, so you can have your cake and eat it too. Most everything will work as you're used to, but it does still talk to Google to make that happen. GrapheneOS: https://grapheneos.org/…

Here's my phone: https://www.gsmarena.com/ulefone_armor_x7_pro-10293.php It's not supported by CalyxOS: https://calyxos.org/get/ It's not supported by GrapheneOS: https://grapheneos.org/faq#supported-devices It's not supported by LineageOS: https://download.lineageos.org/ It's not supported by Sailfish: https://shop.jolla.com/ It's not supported by Replicant: https://www.replicant.us/supported-devices.php Librem 5 is…

Yay can choose a alternative phone next time… just because you have a poorly supported phone doesn’t mean these options aren’t alternatives for you. Just that they aren’t free (as in beer).

Re: Massachusetts health notifications app installed without users’ knowledge

#389

Post by mixmastamyk »

zo1 wrote: post #357
thinkingemote wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the low adoption is because it's hard to explain. No one on my street, none of the most vulnerable people would understand your paragraph. No wonder it's not being adopted by those who should be adopting it, but just being used by vigilant young tech savvy and already covid safe people. So not only are only a small number of people using it, these people are least likely to make a difference using it.

Well what do we expect? We've been shoving privacy down peoples throats for years. You can't now expect them to be rational and trust us with: "don't worry we know privacy is bad, but THIS privacy breach is okay. Again trust us this is because of covid, we're the good guys."

Perhaps “lack of privacy” is what you mean?

Re: Massachusetts health notifications app installed without users’ knowledge

#390

Post by mixmastamyk »

mavhc wrote: post #345
underseacables wrote: post #280

Earlier quoted context omitted.

“ When you get a device with pre-installed, uninstallable, or auto-installed apps.” We’ve never had televisions in the house, but I finally broke down and bought a television so my kids could watch Disney+ on the big TV. The first television I purchased was a Samsung, and it came with these apps that I could not uninstall, did not what, and in fact used storage space that I couldn’t do anything about. I put it back i…

That's why it was cheap. But why care about storage space inside your TV?

Is that your main concern after reading the post above?
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