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A dwarf planet coming within 11 AU of the sun over the next 10 years

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Re: A dwarf planet coming within 11 AU of the sun over the next 10 years

#131
post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, this is an aspect of orbital mechanics that people find unintuitive before they study it. You can't be captured by a planet's gravity alone. If you come in from infinity (i.e., not already captured) you will escape to infinity (remain not captured). The basic idea can be seen from the fact that gravitational dynamics are time-reversible, so if gravity could capture you like this you could also start in orbit aro…

It can reduce the delta-V requirements, though - by the same principles as a gravity assist, a capture burn (especially into a loosely-bound planet-centric orbit) often takes less work than burning into the equivalent heliocentric orbit on your own.

> by the same principles as a gravity assist, a capture burn

Note to the audience: these mechanisms don’t violate the conservation of energy because you aren’t tapping the object’s gravitational energy per se but instead its orbital energy around the sun. Put another way, you can’t do a gravity assist or capture burn in any direction.

Re: A dwarf planet coming within 11 AU of the sun over the next 10 years

#132

The post says "Incl. 95.46628 +/- 0.000052". Am I right to interpret this as meaning that the body has an extreme inclination, almost in polar orbit of the Sun? That would be pretty interesting; it would mean an orbit completely out of line with the rest of the Solar System.

Yes.

But it's not that interesting or unusual. The Oort cloud doesn't really obey the plane of the solar system the way the planets or Kuiper belt do. That's why it's called a 'cloud' and not a 'belt'.

Re: A dwarf planet coming within 11 AU of the sun over the next 10 years

#133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've always figured there's no point in worrying about giant planet destroying meteors, if one comes and we can't stop it, well we're all fucked. What can ya do at that point? If it can't be stopped and it can't be changed...well I guess we had a decent ride...at least it'll probably look cool before we're all vaporized.

What if it can be stopped in theory, but only if humanity pulls together and gets something right for once?

Well, sure if it happens, i just meant in that whole inevitable no matter what doom scenario thing.

I just mean, worrying about that or being scared is not really worth it. If it happens it happens. There's better things to dedicate that energy towards. Save the worrying about things like that for the people being paid to come up with solutions in the extremely rare chance this happens within any of ours, our children's or our grand children's lifetimes, after that I dunno, I'll probably be dead by then.

Re: A dwarf planet coming within 11 AU of the sun over the next 10 years

#136
post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been aware of people talking about Kerbal Space Program for years and years, but I lost interest in playing it when I heard it didn't do real N-body gravitational calculations because they were too intensive. I still find that inexplicable. To me, it sounds like saying "our calculator only does basic arithmetic on four core machines, square roots are too slow".

Not really that inexplicable, it’s a video game. It’s not for computational reasons, but to make gameplay easier to reason about; because again, it’s a video game. The mechanics are simplified, yes, but patched conics is quite a good approximation for many cases, and great for developing an intuition for the basics. There is a mod that includes n-body calculations called Principia if you’re interested in that.

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Re: A dwarf planet coming within 11 AU of the sun over the next 10 years

#137

I know very little about the subject, but does this mean that there are planet-sized objects in orbit around the sun of which we are unaware of?

There definitely are. A major reason for "demoting" Pluto was there are more such Pluto-scale planets in the Kuiper belt. Maybe we will find one bigger than Pluto.

Re: A dwarf planet coming within 11 AU of the sun over the next 10 years

#138
post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is that really true? If we manage to get a spacecraft get captured by the dwarf planet's gravity and orbit it, would that not be a lot less delta-V compared to if we made the spacecraft achieve the dwarf planet's orbit around the sun just by itself?

Yes, this is an aspect of orbital mechanics that people find unintuitive before they study it. You can't be captured by a planet's gravity alone. If you come in from infinity (i.e., not already captured) you will escape to infinity (remain not captured). The basic idea can be seen from the fact that gravitational dynamics are time-reversible, so if gravity could capture you like this you could also start in orbit aro…

> gravitational dynamics are time-reversible, so if gravity could capture you like this you could also start in orbit around a planet and spontaneously be ejected.

I don't have a strong background in physics, and perhaps this is splitting hairs, but is this true if we consider gravitational radiation? Over a very long time a body's orbital energy will be lost to gravitational waves.

Re: A dwarf planet coming within 11 AU of the sun over the next 10 years

#139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So pretty much between Saturn and Uranus.... Even as an adult that still always makes me chuckle. I can't help it.

It’s pronounced your-uh-ness by pretty much everyone (or your-ah-noose if your going by the greek god and not the Latin copy/paste.)

in Arabic (and a bunch of other languages I'm sure) it's pronounced: Oranos, I don't understand why the U in Uranus is not pronounced like the U in Ultra.

Re: A dwarf planet coming within 11 AU of the sun over the next 10 years

#140
post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, this is an aspect of orbital mechanics that people find unintuitive before they study it. You can't be captured by a planet's gravity alone. If you come in from infinity (i.e., not already captured) you will escape to infinity (remain not captured). The basic idea can be seen from the fact that gravitational dynamics are time-reversible, so if gravity could capture you like this you could also start in orbit aro…

What if we crash landed into it? That would probably tick the irreversible box. Clearly engineering difficulties quite high though!

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