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There Are Aliens, but Probably Not Here

fakenous.net

81–90 of 106 posts

Re: There Are Aliens, but Probably Not Here

#81

It is nice to see some more rational explanations for these videos (instead of the constant alien/ufo drivel from most media outlets). The thing that still confuses me, though, is how these videos became a thing in the first place. We are not talking about some random civilians with a Polaroid trying to get pics of a lake monster. The Navy has (presumably high-tech) equipment for finding and tracking airborne phenome…

You should check the interviews (there are several, including a 60 minutes) with the pilot David Fravor (1). There are two pilots and two wizards that saw the same with their own eyes (even I have only see the other pilot confirming it). That's an UFO. That doesn't mean that it's extraterrestrial. To say that it's extraterrestrial at this point, is, in my opinion, so ridiculous like to say that there is nothing to ex…

It's not a UFO. If you don't know what something is, and equipment/sensors are a possible explanation, it makes more sense to say "UAP" (Unidentified Aerial Phenomena) rather than "UFO".

This is not pedantry but an important distinction. What the pilots saw were images in their retinas that they interpreted as an object.

Claiming the unidentified phenomenon is an object is begging the question; we need to prove what the phenomenon is before we can rightly categorize it as an object.

Re: There Are Aliens, but Probably Not Here

#82
post #11

Time for me to sound crazy. I won't comment on the debunking. I am sure there's a logical explanation but I am not qualified to make decisions using the evidence I have (which is often true of people on both sides of the discussion, here, generally). I terms of "are they here", it isn't totally crazy to imagine an AI that can self replicate it's frame, and use this ability to explore the galaxy. When it finds places…

> it isn't totally crazy to imagine an AI that can self replicate it's frame, and use this ability to explore the galaxy tinfoil hat If your AI is directed enough to replicate itself and "explore the galaxy" for some reason, I think it's safe to say that there would be failures and it would understand the implications of it's technology being adopted (by another intelligence, AI or not).

And either not care, want this to happen, or protect against it. I left a measuring tape outside on the deck but I'm not concerned in the least that an insect might find it and learn how to measure things.

Re: There Are Aliens, but Probably Not Here

#83
I agree with nearly everything the professor says. Hell, it doesn't take a professor; it's not that hard. It seems very probable that there are aliens; and for most of them, it seems very improbable that they can get to us, or us to them.

I disagree with him when he proposes that (a) a civilisation founded a billion years ago might still exist; and (b) that such a billion-year-old civilisation would have overcome aging (and on a long journey, they'd have to overcome evolution too).

Further, my view is that our interest in aliens is something that has grown up in the last 200 years. Once it becomes clear to us that no aliens are close-enough to us to be reachable, or to reach us, we'll lose interest.

And we'll stop looking for their signals; we'll understand that after something in the order of 200 years of them discovering the universe, they'll have realised that there's no point in communicating with us.

My guess is that there's a pretty short window when a civilisation is interested in communicating with aliens.

Re: There Are Aliens, but Probably Not Here

#84
post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, obviously I mean, if this is explainable phenomenon (let's say, atmospheric) it would be in the interest of the aviation community to know it. Upper Atmospheric lightning is known at this point. No need for mystery or keeping things under wraps.

> No need for mystery or keeping things under wraps. The government may need if there is other implications beyond flight security. The fact that they explicitly said that there's more classified data about it, clearly shows that concern.

Not so clear, I think.

Sometimes things remain classified not because of the findings, but because of what those findings would reveal about the capabilities of data collection.

Re: There Are Aliens, but Probably Not Here

#85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The pilots are expert in flying and no doubt in-the-moment aerial observation; but its not clear why we need to take their opinion as final and impartial in post-event video analysis.

Yes, this “pilots are trained professionals and therefore they can accurately identify a meaningful anomaly” does not match my experience of being a pilot or the training I received. It is drilled into you that your senses basically can’t be trusted. Your eyes and your brain will try to make sense of what you are seeing and feeling and that’s fine but it’s up to your higher brain to remember that those systems are of…

Exactly. Pilots are highly trained, but they are not experts in everything (physics, atmospheric science).

At the end of the day, everyone is fallible -- and even the experts are sometimes surprised.

These reports can only be treated as best efforts to fit observed phenomena into an existing framework of (inherently limited) understanding. When the phenomenon is adequately oddball, you have to expect an increased level of misinterpretation. See also: doctors, scientists, infosec practitioners, ...

Clearly, this is adequate justification for collection of additional data, but it's not enough to draw conclusions from.

Re: There Are Aliens, but Probably Not Here

#86

It is nice to see some more rational explanations for these videos (instead of the constant alien/ufo drivel from most media outlets). The thing that still confuses me, though, is how these videos became a thing in the first place. We are not talking about some random civilians with a Polaroid trying to get pics of a lake monster. The Navy has (presumably high-tech) equipment for finding and tracking airborne phenome…

You should check the interviews (there are several, including a 60 minutes) with the pilot David Fravor (1). There are two pilots and two wizards that saw the same with their own eyes (even I have only see the other pilot confirming it). That's an UFO. That doesn't mean that it's extraterrestrial. To say that it's extraterrestrial at this point, is, in my opinion, so ridiculous like to say that there is nothing to ex…

Judging by that video alone, there's just one guy telling a story.

He says there were others who saw the same thing, but this interview alone does not prove that.

Some other things that don't gel about his account:

1 - He says during his encounter he didn't turn on his helmet cam because he didn't think of it. Yet much of the rest of the interview is him talking about how highly trained he was (giving the impression that he's one of the best pilots the US has) and yet he made a critical mistake here exactly at the point where a video would be most useful in corroborating his testimony.

I'd also like to know under what circumstances he's been trained to turn that camera on. If he went against his training by keeping that camera off, that would be a red flag. But we just don't know and the interviewer didn't even ask.

There was also no discussion about whether the other person in the plane had a camera of his own, and if he did have one why he didn't turn it on, or if he did turn it on where that video is.

2 - No one on the ship or any of his commanding officers said anything about the anomaly or did anything about it, and neither did he. The pilot says this is because they were all too busy and because the object didn't have another country's flag on it, but that doesn't seem credible.

If you see something that seemingly defies physics and flies faster than any known technology, it seems very unlikely that no one investigated it or even talked about it... for 16 years.

He said he had debriefings and that's where they learn things. What was the debriefing for this mission like? Did they talk about this anomaly? If not, why not?

At the beginning of his story he said he was actually ordered to investigate the anomaly. You'd think there'd be some discussion afterwards at the briefing about what he and the other people he claims saw it actually saw, and the people who ordered him to check it out would want to hear about what he saw first hand. But he said no one talked about it.

Unbelievable.

Re: There Are Aliens, but Probably Not Here

#87

I agree with nearly everything the professor says. Hell, it doesn't take a professor; it's not that hard. It seems very probable that there are aliens; and for most of them, it seems very improbable that they can get to us, or us to them. I disagree with him when he proposes that (a) a civilisation founded a billion years ago might still exist; and (b) that such a billion-year-old civilisation would have overcome agi…

Why do you disagree with the fact that a billion year old civilization will have overcome aging ? It does not seem all that far-fetched to me, there may be species out there that are composed completely different than any life we have here on earth.

Re: There Are Aliens, but Probably Not Here

#88

It is nice to see some more rational explanations for these videos (instead of the constant alien/ufo drivel from most media outlets). The thing that still confuses me, though, is how these videos became a thing in the first place. We are not talking about some random civilians with a Polaroid trying to get pics of a lake monster. The Navy has (presumably high-tech) equipment for finding and tracking airborne phenome…

It takes a good bunch of a lifetime to simply get access to most of the equipment you mention, not to mention those are the most oversighted jobs in the world. Nobody wants crazy or unskilled people handling super powerful hardware with almost no countermeasure aside of taking them down with some similar hardware (ships, aircraft).

Re: There Are Aliens, but Probably Not Here

#89
I guess they're reasonable explanations if the sole piece of "evidence" was camera recordings - but they have numerous eyewitnesses for all of these events, including tracking on the associated carriers for some of them, validating the movements. Being outright dismissive because maybe it could be possibly a camera artifact but ignoring multiple trained eyewitnesses and confirmation from other electronic sources makes me think it is not just a camera artifact.

Re: There Are Aliens, but Probably Not Here

#90
This article makes a familiar error in thinking that I routinely see when it comes to the subject of extraterrestrial life. It goes like this:

1) There exist billions and billions of stars, each of which can be thought of an independent Bernoulli trial with probability P as to whether intelligent life exists in that star system.

2) P must be a non-negligible quantity, because we ourselves exist

3) Therefore intelligent life "must" exist elsewhere in the universe due to the sheer number of trials.

This is an epistemological error that echoes the sort of error made by proponents of intelligent design. They conclude that the chance of thinking beings evolving is prodigiously unlikely, and therefore our existence is proof of a creator.

But in fact, you cannot post-hoc conclude that our existence says anything at all about P, because if we didn't exist, there would be no one to ask the question. Therefore the fact that we are wondering about the value of P means our existence is an implicit axiom of the logical system itself. One way to think of it is there could be infinitely many possible universes with no life at all, and by definition the question of P can only discussed in the one branch, in all that lifeless space of possibilities, where thinking beings actually exist. So P could, in fact, be made arbitrarily small, and Earth could indeed be the only place in the universe with intelligent life.

Note that this doesn't claim that extraterrestrial life _doesn't_ exist. It merely points out the truth in all of this P-hacking: that we have no evidentiary basis for believing one way or the other.

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