I interviewed with Amazon and Facebook in the Spring/Summer of 2020. The difference was night and day. Amazon felt like I was part of a huge cattle herd. The recruiter contacted me and told me they needed to hire a bunch of people in my area. I was immediately given a course of study, link to common LeetCode questions and told I had a couple of weeks. That fine. I enjoy solving puzzles. Facebook felt VERY different.…
Hire-to-fire at Amazon India?
241–250 of 589 posts
Re: Hire-to-fire at Amazon India?
#242Earlier quoted context omitted.
Like I said, I don't doubt that they happen, but given that you've also left the company and seem to have hit one of these areas of toxicity yourself, I'm not surprised you'd think so. Who was your last manager? I'm curious if it's anybody I know?
This went from "weird, defensive throwaway" to "possible Amazon HR agent" in 5 seconds. I think asking for the name of someone's former manager on a public forum without giving any details in return is pretty suspect. For those who aren't already aware, Amazon has a history of covertly paying its employees to "represent" the company in social media: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26636021
"I have soft power". Suspicious indeed.
Re: Hire-to-fire at Amazon India?
#243Earlier quoted context omitted.
Do you have data showing that it's "usually a lie or self-delusion"? Because there's a genetic explanation[1] for why folks need less sleep. The only way I can sleep 9 hours in a night is if I work up a sleep debt. [1] https://www.nih.gov/news-events/nih-research-matters/gene-id...
It’s incredibly rare though.
Re: Hire-to-fire at Amazon India?
#244Former AWS engineer here. I worked on a pretty critical product in AWS (big AWS service with lots of traffic) and I can safely say that it's totally up to your manager and pre-existing conditions which make up the job. My manager was great as a person but would always lack in my career-oriented goals (bigger projects, promotions, etc) But what really sucked for me was the pre-existing conditions. Our on-call was pret…
Current AWS engineer here, can confirm. I'm absolutely broken. I'd second the point about the manager and pre-existing conditions making up the job. It's not clear to me if it's endemic, these are big orgs with teams run very differently. That being said, the on-call sucks. It's really awful, and something I've never seen before. It's also typically the primary cause of team churn for people in my org. This varies, a…
Re: Hire-to-fire at Amazon India?
#245My work life balance is good. My manager is supportive of me and my org takes mental health seriously. We don't hire to fire; in fact we can't hire enough people to keep up with customer demand.
Amazon is a huuuuge place with many different orgs. Maybe you can get stuck on a bad team in a unsupportive org. But to say every org operates as the OP alleges is simply not true.
I'm sorry they had a bad experience at Amazon. But their experience is in no way indicative of every org as they allege.
Also, I find it somewhat interesting that everyone who leaves Amazon after a negative experience blames URA and interoffice politics. It's almost as if it's never the person's fault they got fired.
Re: Hire-to-fire at Amazon India?
#246Think before you join any large company. Nothing here is unique to AWS. We outside have the illusion that everything is perfect on the inside of these profitable and successful companies, but in most cases it’s generally a lot of broken code and a boiler room. Staff is usually burned out after a few years - why do you think turnover in the tech industry is so high?? The amount of bugs and issues in Facebook advertisi…
Many companies have teams that can push you hard (I burned out at Microsoft, who in general is fairly good for work/life balance), but none of them make it a core part of their identity. Amazon prides themselves on bare metal optimizations, tracking and micromanaging the smallest time quantums they can - it's why they have a fleet of warehouses that grind picking employees into a broken down mess, it's why their offices have almost no perks, and it's why there are so many stories of their codebase and process being a mess.
Living in Seattle, I'm fortunate enough to have friends who work or have worked in all the big cloud orgs - AWS, Azure, GCP, and Oracle. The ranting, burnout, and raw shitshow quotient of Amazon is off the charts. It's the only company that any personal friends have ever warned me against joining, and ALL my friends that have ever tried to work there eventually gave me that warning.
Re: Hire-to-fire at Amazon India?
#247Former AWS engineer here. I worked on a pretty critical product in AWS (big AWS service with lots of traffic) and I can safely say that it's totally up to your manager and pre-existing conditions which make up the job. My manager was great as a person but would always lack in my career-oriented goals (bigger projects, promotions, etc) But what really sucked for me was the pre-existing conditions. Our on-call was pret…
It was a defunct mobile company. I had the contracting company put it in the paperwork, to my surprise they signed. cause they have multiple times let go of contractors to make C level "bonus". It was known for it. I got some push back, but they signed it, they needed an engineer who understood mobile routing records.
3 months into the contract, they apparently forgot, and let me and everyone go. Reason 'services no longer needed' aka CEO wanted to make bonus. I said ok, then called the contractor's legal dept. After 3 days, i got a call back. Told him look at page 4 line 30.. he read it. Long silence. 5 minutes of silence. "I never seen a clause like this. I will call you back with an answer." Next day, Both lawyers call, one asked would i be interested in returning. I said "fufill the contract terms". "Your check will be delivered in two weeks." Contracting firm, was getting paid too. they were happy and mad. Happy for $$$, mad that they probably lost a semi big client.
I got my check, had a new contract before the 2 weeks.
Fast forword to Amazon. They read it and said no. I declined. They offered little more, but I said I will not work for Amazon until they fix their corporate envirnoment. My friend worked there, she lasted 4 months more, after moving to Seattle, and finding out the hard way that amazon is pure corporate monster.
Re: Hire-to-fire at Amazon India?
#248Former AWS engineer here. I worked on a pretty critical product in AWS (big AWS service with lots of traffic) and I can safely say that it's totally up to your manager and pre-existing conditions which make up the job. My manager was great as a person but would always lack in my career-oriented goals (bigger projects, promotions, etc) But what really sucked for me was the pre-existing conditions. Our on-call was pret…
What is really problematic is that from a management perspective they're doing really great: company is growing and extremely valueable, stock price is doing great, revenue and profits are doing great, and bezos is the richest person in the world. Management has zero incentive to change any of problems you signal, and probably don't see them as an issue. Probably the opposite, they see this as a winning system, and w…
It sounds like management intentionally created these practices. This is from a recent NY Times article about Amazon warehouse workers, but it wouldn't surprise me if this attitude was applied to all workers in the company to some degree:
https://www.nytimes.com/2021/06/15/us/politics/amazon-wareho...:
> 5. Many of Amazon’s most contentious policies go back to Jeff Bezos’ original vision. Some of the practices that most frustrate employees — the short-term-employment model, with little opportunity for advancement, and the use of technology to hire, monitor and manage workers — come from Jeff Bezos, Amazon’s founder and chief executive.
> He believed that an entrenched work force created a “march to mediocrity,” said David Niekerk, a former long-serving vice president who built the company’s original human resources operations in the warehouses.
> Company data showed that most employees became less eager over time, he said, and Mr. Bezos believed that people were inherently lazy. “What he would say is that our nature as humans is to expend as little energy as possible to get what we want or need,” Mr. Niekerk said. That conviction was embedded throughout the business, from the ease of instant ordering to the pervasive use of data to get the most out of employees.
In many cases software engineers overestimate their own value to the company, often to the point were they'll ape the attitudes of owners and management (e.g. rejecting the the idea of a union out of hand). But the fact of the matter is they're cogs just like warehouse workers, and in many situations competent management will exploit the hell out of them to extract maximum value for the shareholders.
Re: Hire-to-fire at Amazon India?
#249Former AWS engineer here. I worked on a pretty critical product in AWS (big AWS service with lots of traffic) and I can safely say that it's totally up to your manager and pre-existing conditions which make up the job. My manager was great as a person but would always lack in my career-oriented goals (bigger projects, promotions, etc) But what really sucked for me was the pre-existing conditions. Our on-call was pret…
Re: Hire-to-fire at Amazon India?
#250I work at a company that hires developers out of Amazon. We joke about having to deprogram them, but it's not really a joke. They bring a lot of emotional issues and toxic workplace habits with them. Don't get me wrong, the Amazon engineers are fantastic, but there is clearly something unhealthy going on at Amazon.