Earlier quoted context omitted.
The parents choose where to spend the voucher. Unless you think parents value "100% on their tests" more than receiving a quality education. I trust a parent's judgment more than administrators looking to prop up their numbers.
Yeah, some parents do value “100% on their tests” more than receiving a quality education. https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2019/05/22/colleg...
Life as a public school teacher in the San Francisco Bay Area in 2021
681–690 of 764 posts
Re: Life as a public school teacher in the San Francisco Bay Area in 2021
#682Earlier quoted context omitted.
I don't see how that follows. If you're making a slippery slope argument - the answer is that there is a difference between a private school with administration, dedicated real estate and staff teaching 100s of kids, and people keeping their kids home to teach them themselves. If it's a semantic argument, that homeschooling is a form of non-public and therefore private education, by private schools I specifically mea…
at best you'd move the threshold to remove yourself from the system a little higher, from those paying top dollar private schools to those who can hire tutors and/or have one of the parents dedicated to tutoring there's no effective way to ban private tutoring in the sense and effect of this thread that doesn't also involve banning homeschooling edit: or simply send the kids abroad, the classic rich-person-in-failed-…
The point is to move the bar for removing yourself higher - systems are complicated, there are no perfect solutions. Of course, people will always find a way - at the very least, they can move to another country. Right now though a significant number of people opt out of the public system and I think that's a huge problem.
Re: Life as a public school teacher in the San Francisco Bay Area in 2021
#683Earlier quoted context omitted.
at best you'd move the threshold to remove yourself from the system a little higher, from those paying top dollar private schools to those who can hire tutors and/or have one of the parents dedicated to tutoring there's no effective way to ban private tutoring in the sense and effect of this thread that doesn't also involve banning homeschooling edit: or simply send the kids abroad, the classic rich-person-in-failed-…
I'm not seeing this connection that you and others are making between private schools and tutoring or homeschooling. When I say private schools, I mean it in the sense most people think of private schools: large institutions requiring applications, charging tuition and hiring teachers not related to the students, not "any form of education not provided publicly". I don't think homeschooling fits this definition. The…
Re: Life as a public school teacher in the San Francisco Bay Area in 2021
#684Earlier quoted context omitted.
The logical conclusion of this thought process is a question of what to do with laggards and I do not see it being addressed. Ignoring it is not a real option.
Please don't label people as laggards. It is dehumanizing. They could be your lost identical twin who had a chemical accident at a young age and never got the opportunity to develop properly.
For the record, I did not even try to dehumanize. I just applied the language of technology adoption to adoption of knowledge. It seemed applicable.
https://ondigitalmarketing.com/learn/odm/foundations/5-custo...
Re: Life as a public school teacher in the San Francisco Bay Area in 2021
#685Earlier quoted context omitted.
The analysis is harder than that. I would imagine education degrees are not particularly versatile: they’re meant to train you to become a teacher, more or less. Given that, it is not particularly surprising that teaching is one of the better-paying options once you commit to that pathway. However, there are plenty of other, career tracks: potential teachers might become accountants or engineers instead. Zooming in a…
> I would imagine education degrees are not particularly versatile: they’re meant to train you to become a teacher, more or less. This would imply that education degrees make their recipients better educators. There is no strong evidence of that. https://www.brookings.edu/research/who-profits-from-the-mast... > The fact that teachers with master’s degrees are no more effective in the classroom, on average, than their…
Not necessarily. It might just be an artifact of mandatory certifications. Suppose that teacher training were completely useless (debatable), but nevertheless legally required (mostly true, esp. for public schools) and expensive in terms of time or money (definitely true). I think you’d still expect increased earnings in those who obtained the certification, if only because they are now eligible for jobs where the supply of potential employees is limited. If they leave the industry, however, that certification often counts for very little, and the pay bump disappears. None of this, of course, tells you anything about conditions across industries.
The quotes in your comment are missing some important context. As §2.1 of the linked paper says, nearly all teachers in the US are somehow licensed, but this can be part of an education degree or an “alternative certification” for those with other degrees. Those two types of training are what the paper compares, not trained vs totally untrained. Critically, both take time and money.
The advanced degree data is also hard to interpret. It could be that a masters is totally worthless. However, selection effects also seem possible: teachers with more training could be given more challenging students or courses, or, as the paper proposes, underperforming teachers could preferentially do a masters to shore up their skills. They could also have more out-of-classroom responsibilities (e.g., curriculum development or admin), which would be consistent with how advanced degrees work in many other fields.
Anyway, all this is to say that “haha teachers are overpaid dummies” is, IMO, too simplistic and not supported by the data either.
Re: Life as a public school teacher in the San Francisco Bay Area in 2021
#686Earlier quoted context omitted.
In SF, the parents are absolutely not the cause here. The issue is a top-down mandate from the school board focus on equity to the detriment of all other objectives.
The parents voted in the board, no?
Re: Life as a public school teacher in the San Francisco Bay Area in 2021
#687Earlier quoted context omitted.
Nothing is going to work while everything is paced by year. In 7th grade, in the fall you are taught X, so if you miss it the only solution is to take it next time: next fall with the next year’s 7th graders. In an ideal infinitely funded world, if you took 20% longer to learn X, you’d just go slower, not be left behind.
You could just study using your textbook and workbook. A lot of material relies on what you previously studied in some way. You should be able to learn the things that you missed with your experience and textbook. Nowadays you also have the internet that can fill those gaps. If a student wants to learn, then there are many opportunities. But students usually don't want to.
Re: Life as a public school teacher in the San Francisco Bay Area in 2021
#688Earlier quoted context omitted.
Private schools also have fewer hiring restrictions, which lets them lower salaries. I know a couple people who did not get the qualifications to work at a public school, and now teach at private schools. (Not for lack of ability, by the way).
Really? Our state generally just requires a state teaching certification and FBI background check. I thought that was also a requirement for K-12 private schools.
Re: Life as a public school teacher in the San Francisco Bay Area in 2021
#689Earlier quoted context omitted.
Perhaps any voucher system could be calibrated to: A) allow some more students to go to private schools by providing a fraction of what would be spent on them, and B) increase remaining resources per-pupil in the public school system. Of course, it still takes thought to make sure that the public schools improve in this scenario, because they will also be fighting an adverse-selection headwind of being stuck with stu…
I'm not sure your math works. If the goal of vouchers is to take the total education budget, divide it by the number of students, then disperse the pot equally. In other words is it simply a case of $10 000 per child per year, so here's a voucher for 10k, go wherever you like? There are no extra resources here for underperforming schools - in fact there are likely fewer resources. Public shools won't get smaller thou…
When vouchers were proposed in California in 1993, it was to be half the amount spent by the state on each child for public education. In 2000, it was to be $4000/year, when the state spent about $7000/year per student.
Of course, there's the big existing population in private schools that would also have been eligible for vouchers-- about 7%-- so these amounts probably still would drive down per-pupil spending in public schools. You'd need to roughly double private school enrollment to "break even" in per-pupil spending.
I favor something like 20-33%-- that might reasonably be expected to both make it significantly easier for parents to send their children to private schools and increase resources per student in public schools.
Re: Life as a public school teacher in the San Francisco Bay Area in 2021
#690Earlier quoted context omitted.
Fair enough, but my impression of lots of public schools is that they are abysmal and the few that aren’t are typically only available to rich people anyway (in practice, not principle) so the current system addresses neither overall quality of education nor inequality.
Yes, currently. But we should be looking to improve that system for everyone, not allowing a privileges few to opt out.
Just from a scientific perspective, more experiments that are able to learn from each other and adapt things they see working elsewhere into their approach should naturally lead to constantly improving schools.
A single lowest common denominator that nobody is allowed to escape from is doomed to failure by comparison.