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Life as a public school teacher in the San Francisco Bay Area in 2021

adamcadre.ac

621–630 of 764 posts

Re: Life as a public school teacher in the San Francisco Bay Area in 2021

#621
post #204

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Caltech requires good grades as criteria for admission. Caltech graduates have a disproportionately high percentage of Nobel prizes. Caltech requires 10-year-old kids to write essays? Again, are we talking about enrolling 10-year-old kids in highschool or are we talking about hiring microbiologists?

First, high school starts with 14 year olds, not 10. Second, people don't suddenly learn how to write a competent essay at the last minute. Writing a good one is a combination of many skills learned over many years. BTW, I did not take any college prep courses prior to Caltech, and found myself way behind the other freshman who did. I found out many years later that the admissions committee had taken a chance on me,…

Admission essays are a literary genre of their own, like the weird language used by some state bureaucracies. Knowing how to write these essays is a splinter skill.

Anyway, so you should not have been admitted but you succeeded anyway without being a gifted kid? It seems like you have proved my point.

Re: Life as a public school teacher in the San Francisco Bay Area in 2021

#622

Earlier quoted context omitted.

* remedial and the kids who were really trying would never be sent to remedial because that’s where the true losers were sent (in a different building) where they couldn’t disrupt anyone else’s learning.* This just isn't true. Do you honestly believe that a kid with a learning disability is simply not trying? I know that was the attitude of the schools of yesteryear - but they were wrong. There are lots of reasons fo…

> This just isn't true. Do you honestly believe that a kid with a learning disability is simply not trying? You injected the words "learning disability". That's not that OP said.

OP mentioned not “showing up”, not “putting in effort”, not doing homework and disruptiveness as indications that a child is a loser and not worth the resources it would take to make them productive adults. All those things are either signs of a difficult home environment or a learning disability.

I haven’t read all the replies yet but I’m surprised at the lack of reactions to OP classifying some children as losers because of their performance at school.

Re: Life as a public school teacher in the San Francisco Bay Area in 2021

#623
post #575

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> to turn one of those kids into someone worthwhile The basic insight here is: kids with learning disabilities, or who have a home environment not conducive to learning, are worthwhile people. And school as the institution taking care of those kids should do more than just send them to another building to rot. It's a very straightforward thing to want your upper middle class privileged kid get all the support they ne…

In my country parents can choose which school they send their kids to. You get "white schools". Parents always want the best for their children and this predictably leads to full segregation. I am actually surprised how egalitarian and inclusive the US is when it comes to education!

There are many good reasons to de-racialize the discussion around US public education. One is that the "white school" trope is increasingly out of date. Instead, we've begun to see "Asian schools" wherever high-performing public high school schools admit students based on standardized testing. The top-ranked high school in the entire US, Thomas Jefferson High School for Science and Technology, is 65% Asian and 23% white in a county that is 17% Asian and 62% white [0][1]. Stuyvesant High School in New York City, another high-performing public magnet school, is 74% Asian while Asian residents make up just 14% of the city's population [2][3].

In my view, there's a degree to which such lopsided admissions represent a greater Asian American cultural emphasis on education (good) coupled with a marginal standardized test score advantage produced by many hours of after-school test prep (bad). As repeated studies have shown, the advantage of e.g. SAT test prep courses is consistently relatively small, but enough of an edge to matter when you're looking at a ~10% admissions rate [2][4]. Not all applicants have parents who can afford or are aware of the value of such test prep, so it represents an uneven advantage. Crucially, this advantage is not inherently racial, but rather an artifact of culture, parental choice, and socioeconomic background. To mitigate this uneven advantage without completely eliminating merit-based admissions, a blurring filter e.g. random lottery might be applied to the top X% of test scorers.

And there is absolutely value in merit-based admissions. It makes these magnet schools what they are [5]. Despite their distorted demographics, it's what enables schools like Stuyvesant to still function as effective ladders out of poverty for many students:

>What makes these schools so good? The general consensus is the academic rigor. But what’s come out clearly in our interviews with Stuyvesant graduates is something arguably more important: a peer-driven expectation of achievement. What Stuyvesant does is take 3,000 pretty bright kids and put them in a building together. Then magical things happen. They push each other, they strive to be like each other, they learn from each other.

>Nearly all of these kids went to college, often selective ones, and most went on to do well professionally. The poorer students became middle or upper-middle class, and the middle-class students often did better than their parents. And they were happy—most (though not all) felt that Stuyvesant had had a big effect on their lives. For instance, Elizabeth Reid Yee, a white 1985 graduate who grew up poor in Greenpoint, Brooklyn, fully credits Stuyvesant with keeping her from a life of poverty.

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Jefferson_High_School_f...

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fairfax_County,_Virginia

[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stuyvesant_High_School

[3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_New_York_City

[4] https://www.thoughtco.com/are-sat-prep-courses-worth-the-cos...

[5] https://www.theatlantic.com/education/archive/2018/06/new-yo...

Re: Life as a public school teacher in the San Francisco Bay Area in 2021

#624
post #575

I’ve noticed that in the time since I was a kid, the focus of public school has shifted from about the 40th percentile student to the 5th percentile student. In my school, the entire focus of the operation was the decent student... the one who showed up, put in a decent effort, did at least three quarters of their homework. The school had tremendous resources for these kids to go to college, and the very best college…

> to turn one of those kids into someone worthwhile The basic insight here is: kids with learning disabilities, or who have a home environment not conducive to learning, are worthwhile people. And school as the institution taking care of those kids should do more than just send them to another building to rot. It's a very straightforward thing to want your upper middle class privileged kid get all the support they ne…

It's exactly these low performers who never study, are always late, interrupt, and bully who make school living hell for the neurodiverse students that actually try. They can go into a coal mine and move piles of rocks for the rest of their lives for all I care as long as they can no longer disrupt everyone else.

Re: Life as a public school teacher in the San Francisco Bay Area in 2021

#625
post #434

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would say it’s the opposite. Vacation time has more incremental value the longer it goes on. Even a 2 week vacation I’d have trouble fully unwinding from. An entire summer, you can truly have some quality time to yourself to recharge, focus on a hobby, travel a lot, etc. I would say those summers off are easily worth $100k.

Too bad it's vacation time when everyone else is having vacation, so everything is crowded.

The saving grace is that it’s synchro with your kids’ vacations.

Re: Life as a public school teacher in the San Francisco Bay Area in 2021

#626

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This just isn't true. Do you honestly believe that a kid with a learning disability is simply not trying? You injected the words "learning disability". That's not that OP said.

OP mentioned not “showing up”, not “putting in effort”, not doing homework and disruptiveness as indications that a child is a loser and not worth the resources it would take to make them productive adults. All those things are either signs of a difficult home environment or a learning disability. I haven’t read all the replies yet but I’m surprised at the lack of reactions to OP classifying some children as losers b…

> All those things are either signs of a difficult home environment or a learning disability.

That's not true, some kids are just shitheads and don't feel like listening to anyone or doing what they're told. Personal responsibility has to come into play at some point, you can't just blame every problem on external factors.

Re: Life as a public school teacher in the San Francisco Bay Area in 2021

#627

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This just isn't true. Do you honestly believe that a kid with a learning disability is simply not trying? You injected the words "learning disability". That's not that OP said.

OP mentioned not “showing up”, not “putting in effort”, not doing homework and disruptiveness as indications that a child is a loser and not worth the resources it would take to make them productive adults. All those things are either signs of a difficult home environment or a learning disability. I haven’t read all the replies yet but I’m surprised at the lack of reactions to OP classifying some children as losers b…

Equating low effort and disruptiveness with "the kid has a learning disability or a broken home environment" is certainly an interesting way of absolving schools for the broken, chaotic environment they put kids through. Could it be that not enforcing meaningful school discipline might also be a factor into students "not showing up", being disruptive and not putting in effort?

Re: Life as a public school teacher in the San Francisco Bay Area in 2021

#628

I’ve noticed that in the time since I was a kid, the focus of public school has shifted from about the 40th percentile student to the 5th percentile student. In my school, the entire focus of the operation was the decent student... the one who showed up, put in a decent effort, did at least three quarters of their homework. The school had tremendous resources for these kids to go to college, and the very best college…

> the effort in takes to turn those kids into someone worthwhile Hell, you know you talk about human beings here, not some production ressource, right? The number of posts in this thread along the very same line, why bother with all those loosers at all if the bright ones could become a brain surgeon, is mind boggling. And IMHO hints at the cause of a lot of problems wr have in our society right now. Let me guess, yo…

I believe a large portion of HN visitor got their lunch money stolen and toys broken by these loser kids. Bullied kids grow up to despise bullies, and bullying usually goes hand-in-hand with being a poor student

Re: Life as a public school teacher in the San Francisco Bay Area in 2021

#629

I’ve noticed that in the time since I was a kid, the focus of public school has shifted from about the 40th percentile student to the 5th percentile student. In my school, the entire focus of the operation was the decent student... the one who showed up, put in a decent effort, did at least three quarters of their homework. The school had tremendous resources for these kids to go to college, and the very best college…

> the effort in takes to turn those kids into someone worthwhile Hell, you know you talk about human beings here, not some production ressource, right? The number of posts in this thread along the very same line, why bother with all those loosers at all if the bright ones could become a brain surgeon, is mind boggling. And IMHO hints at the cause of a lot of problems wr have in our society right now. Let me guess, yo…

A productive education system should dedicate resources to students equally with voluntary options for students who perform outside the norm. That means not disproportionately dedicating resources to students who fail aside from tutoring outside class. Some students just deserve to fail. It is better find that out early instead of lying to children that everything is great and kicking the can down the road to the shock of adulthood.

Teachers are not parents. They have limited time and resources to devote to a specified area of instruction divided amongst a number of students. Some parents are extreme failures in their responsibility which performs the greatest disservice to a child. This is how I ended up with a foster child with emotional trauma. Teachers must not be expected to perform the job of a parent just because some parents are so horribly bad at being parents.

Re: Life as a public school teacher in the San Francisco Bay Area in 2021

#630
post #429

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Teaching doesn’t attract highly paid workers because in addition to a big pay cut those workers would be considering likely worse working conditions as well. You could double teacher pay and it wouldn't make a lick of difference. As a teacher, you have no control over your classroom. Disruptive students that destroy everybody else's learning environment? Too bad. No Child Left Behind! Wait, that's the old slogan, w…

Want to actually teach kids things they need to learn to succeed? This is the wrong job for you. I teach at a community college and for years I've told newcomers to profession that one thing this job is not about is teaching.

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