Live data from Hacker News

Life as a public school teacher in the San Francisco Bay Area in 2021

adamcadre.ac

611–620 of 764 posts

Re: Life as a public school teacher in the San Francisco Bay Area in 2021

#611
post #575

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> to turn one of those kids into someone worthwhile The basic insight here is: kids with learning disabilities, or who have a home environment not conducive to learning, are worthwhile people. And school as the institution taking care of those kids should do more than just send them to another building to rot. It's a very straightforward thing to want your upper middle class privileged kid get all the support they ne…

In my country parents can choose which school they send their kids to. You get "white schools". Parents always want the best for their children and this predictably leads to full segregation. I am actually surprised how egalitarian and inclusive the US is when it comes to education!

> Parents always want the best for their children and this predictably leads to full segregation.

More likely, segregation happens because parents don't always want the best for their kids. A lot of it is simply self-segregation, driven by varying parental attitudes to education and the like.

Re: Life as a public school teacher in the San Francisco Bay Area in 2021

#612
post #429

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Want to actually teach kids things they need to learn to succeed? This is the wrong job for you. I teach at a community college and for years I've told newcomers to profession that one thing this job is not about is teaching.

>and for years I've told newcomers to profession that one thing this job is not about is teaching. So, what is about then?

High passing rate and minimal number of student complaints. No one in administration cares if the high passing rate is because standards were lowered. All they care about is that more than x% pass.

Re: Life as a public school teacher in the San Francisco Bay Area in 2021

#613

I’ve noticed that in the time since I was a kid, the focus of public school has shifted from about the 40th percentile student to the 5th percentile student. In my school, the entire focus of the operation was the decent student... the one who showed up, put in a decent effort, did at least three quarters of their homework. The school had tremendous resources for these kids to go to college, and the very best college…

Where I went to school, they put all of the effort into the kids who were failing and if you were doing well, you got no help because hey you seem to be doing ok. Results? The kids who were failing still failed because no matter how much teachers do, it's still up to them to study.

There are also many, less intuitive reasons why continued commitment over time on the student's part is critically important. A student who is not sufficiently committed to her education might manage to "cram" for a test (often with strenuous, even painful effort!) and perhaps pass it, but then not put any attention into reviewing what she has learned, which sets her up to fail later when she will be expected to be familiar with that content and tackle new material that depends on it. It can be a self-sustaining cycle of failure.

Re: Life as a public school teacher in the San Francisco Bay Area in 2021

#614
post #444
post #320

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Your question was “Do these 10 year old not care about school because there is something intrinsically wrong about them”. > My indirect answer is not necessarily, although there may be some for whom the answer is yes. I suspect the more common answer is no: They do not care about school because they have other, more pressing needs besides school. So, the answer is: no, these kids are not broken. > If you want to fo…

> these kids are not broken. > we are calling it "merit" It sounds like you’re arguing about who deserves the prestige of going to Lowell rather than who actually benefits and contributes to the experience of attending classes at Lowell, which is the most populous school in San Francisco and has fairly large class sizes and tough grading. Instead of pretending that all students are equally prepared for class or that…

> It sounds like you’re arguing about who deserves the prestige of going to Lowell rather than who actually benefits and contributes to the experience of attending classes at Lowell, which is the most populous school in San Francisco and has fairly large class sizes and tough grading.

As we agreed that social economic background is a major predictor of admission, claiming that poor kids can’t benefit nor contribute to the experience of attending this school is a weirdly classist statement. It is also based on the assumption that to be able to read 3 novels in a year and to learn the cosine law, one must be a particularly gifted kid and not just a random 10, 13 or 16 year old.

Highschool prestige is a concept that I understand but I that I don't accept. Like I understand why some primitive tribes practiced human sacrifices, but I wouldn’t let them do such thing near me. So I’m not arguing for that. But if we accept that highschool prestige increases your chances in life, then state schools should distribute this privilege equally.

> Instead of pretending that all students are equally prepared for class or that every teacher is prepared to serve every kind of student at the same time, reformers should try to figure out exactly what the students such as the ones in the article need for motivation. It doesn’t mean that they lack "merit" or that people who don’t want to go to a competitive college are bad people. It’s ok to acknowledge that different people have different needs.

I insist that we should reason on why some minorities are significantly underrepresented. We may conclude that only gifted kids can attend this very important school and that kids from minorities are less likely to be gifted, but I wouldn’t be too sure of either.

If we find out that, say, blacks are significantly underrepresented because they come from disadvantaged backgrounds, then the admission process is at least classist, knowingly or otherwise. We may also argue that it perpetuates class and racial differences. Claiming that these kids have inherently different needs is like saying that my child should become an engineer because I’m well off, so he needs to learn advanced maths and whatever, and these children should serve food and clean toilets because they are poor, and they only need to learn who’s the boss. This is, like it or not, very very classist.

Re: Life as a public school teacher in the San Francisco Bay Area in 2021

#615
post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know anything about this particular Lowell High School, but selective admissions at the high school level achieve excellency by filtering out "bad" students, which are usually students from disadvantaged backgrounds. If a public school is of very high quality, selecting 10 year olds at random is not much less fair than choosing them based on their grades or extracurricular activities or an essay. Unless we as…

> If certain demographics are heavily underrepresented (and I don't know if it's the case here), either we must assume that they are less smart (and so produce less "high school material") or we must acknowledge that there is some form of discrimination. The latter being almost certainly true Is this what the evidence suggests or what you wish to be true?

> Is this what the evidence suggests or what you wish to be true?

Yes, evidence suggests that blacks and Indians and whatnot are not dumber than whites and that foreigners are not dumber than the locals.

Re: Life as a public school teacher in the San Francisco Bay Area in 2021

#616
post #592

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe it didn’t get worse, but it still demonstrate what’s the result and maybe the objective of these strict selection criteria: that discriminated minorities end up being excluded. Let it be children with foreign origin in Germany (which doesn’t stop after a generation) or whatever minority is being excluded from this very important American school. And given that people leave high school barely capable of reading…

> that discriminated minorities end up being excluded. Let it be children with foreign origin in Germany (which doesn’t stop after a generation) Except of course for the founders of BoiNTech: Uğur Şahin, and Özlem Türeci. Included to the point they got German government-funded PhDs and then other native Germans helped co-found their company. Perhaps you hypothesis needs more data and less feelings?

The CEO of BioNTech was told to attend a lower level school, which wouldn’t have allowed him to go to university. He claims that if it weren’t for a German neighbour he would not have gone to a gymnasium. This is a form of discrimination.

Re: Life as a public school teacher in the San Francisco Bay Area in 2021

#617

I’ve noticed that in the time since I was a kid, the focus of public school has shifted from about the 40th percentile student to the 5th percentile student. In my school, the entire focus of the operation was the decent student... the one who showed up, put in a decent effort, did at least three quarters of their homework. The school had tremendous resources for these kids to go to college, and the very best college…

Honestly, I think viewing it as an exclusive choice is harmful.

Schools need resources for both kinds of students, and if they have to choose who gets the attention they are simply underfunded.

Re: Life as a public school teacher in the San Francisco Bay Area in 2021

#618
post #592

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe it didn’t get worse, but it still demonstrate what’s the result and maybe the objective of these strict selection criteria: that discriminated minorities end up being excluded. Let it be children with foreign origin in Germany (which doesn’t stop after a generation) or whatever minority is being excluded from this very important American school. And given that people leave high school barely capable of reading…

> that discriminated minorities end up being excluded. Let it be children with foreign origin in Germany (which doesn’t stop after a generation) Except of course for the founders of BoiNTech: Uğur Şahin, and Özlem Türeci. Included to the point they got German government-funded PhDs and then other native Germans helped co-found their company. Perhaps you hypothesis needs more data and less feelings?

Well, two people succeeding against all odds hardly qualify as data. Especially when every single PISA study tells you otherwise.

Unless, of course, you buy into all that dishwasher to millionaire you can achieve anything if you want but don't expect a helping hand BS.

Re: Life as a public school teacher in the San Francisco Bay Area in 2021

#619

I’ve noticed that in the time since I was a kid, the focus of public school has shifted from about the 40th percentile student to the 5th percentile student. In my school, the entire focus of the operation was the decent student... the one who showed up, put in a decent effort, did at least three quarters of their homework. The school had tremendous resources for these kids to go to college, and the very best college…

> the effort in takes to turn those kids into someone worthwhile

Hell, you know you talk about human beings here, not some production ressource, right? The number of posts in this thread along the very same line, why bother with all those loosers at all if the bright ones could become a brain surgeon, is mind boggling. And IMHO hints at the cause of a lot of problems wr have in our society right now.

Let me guess, your kids definitely fall into the future researcher category, don't they? Just imagine, these other kids have parents too!

Re: Life as a public school teacher in the San Francisco Bay Area in 2021

#620
post #612

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>and for years I've told newcomers to profession that one thing this job is not about is teaching. So, what is about then?

High passing rate and minimal number of student complaints. No one in administration cares if the high passing rate is because standards were lowered. All they care about is that more than x% pass.

Another sad instance of Strahern's adaptation of Goodhart's law[1]:

"When a measure becomes a target, it ceases to be a good measure"

[1]https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goodhart%27s_law

Post reply on HN