Life as a public school teacher in the San Francisco Bay Area in 2021 • Hacker News Board

Re: Life as a public school teacher in the San Francisco Bay Area in 2021

#501

Post by paulddraper » Sun, Jun 20, 2021, 5:07 AM UTC

professoretc wrote: post #114

analog31 wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Playing devils advocate for a moment, as grading works right now, a kid can quickly dig themselves into a hole that they have no realistic way to get out of, e.g., by utterly bombing on an exam or missing a few assignments early in the semester. The motivation for that kid to progress any further is zero, yet they are imprisoned in the classroom for the duration of the semester. This hits very close to home for me, a…

> a kid can quickly dig themselves into a hole that they have no > realistic way to get out of, e.g., by utterly bombing on an exam > or missing a few assignments early in the semester. You've pretty much hit the nail on the head. The authors of _Grading For Equity_ spoke at my school and the reasoning they gave for eliminating 0-grading (i.e., not using 0 as the lowest possible grade) was because it's basically impo…

> a student who masters the material by the end of class should get the same grade as one who masters it at the beginning

The same lesson is not being given over and over again.

There are X tests/assignments/projects for X areas covered.

Each is assessed in its turn.

Of course, there is usually some overall assessment on the content as a whole, at the end of a quarter/semester/year. I think that aligns perfectly with your desire.

Re: Life as a public school teacher in the San Francisco Bay Area in 2021

#502

Post by co001de » Sun, Jun 20, 2021, 5:07 AM UTC

fallingknife wrote: post #25

> Another initiative headed for mandate status is a school policy that no assignment can receive a grade of less than 50% > And my direct supervisor repeatedly demanded that I pace my classes for the benefit of the single student in each section who was struggling the most I don't understand school. Why do they do things like this? Who actually thinks this is a good idea? I've never met anyone who does. How have we g…

https://youtu.be/iKcWu0tsiZM

Re: Life as a public school teacher in the San Francisco Bay Area in 2021

#503

Post by dehrmann » Sun, Jun 20, 2021, 5:08 AM UTC

raunak wrote: post #464

WalterBright wrote: post #368

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Caltech's freshman class size is also about 50% larger than in my day. These days I also hear that people shotgun out applications (much easier to do with a computer rather than a typewriter!) which increases the rejection rate even with the exact same number of students. I have no idea if the relative quality of today's Caltech freshman body is better or the same as in my day. I flipped through an SAT vocabulary bui…

I’m 18 now and took the SAT two years ago - I scored well without the need to practice too much, but official practice is available completely for free on Khan Academy. You really don’t need to pay anything to improve on the SAT these days, and anyone arguing elsewise is misguided as to how the test actually works. And also - I agree - I never really learned “grammar rules” or the details of writing. I just learned f…

> You really don’t need to pay anything to improve on the SAT these days

I heard something on This American Life, I think, about a "strong student" from a bad high school doing poorly on the SAT. I got the impression she hadn't prepared at all...which seems odd for a strong student when there are free resources.

> memorizing vocab

The College Board got called out for some of this after the "regatta" incident. It turns out rich kids were much more likely to know the term for a boat race. Oops.

I'm really curious to see the outcomes of the no-SAT cohort of college students, once the 2020-2021 year is ignored, data cleaned, etc. Even if GPA was enough in 2020, it seems like it would get harder and harder to compare schools over time without a standardized test.

Re: Life as a public school teacher in the San Francisco Bay Area in 2021

#504

Post by nitrogen » Sun, Jun 20, 2021, 5:08 AM UTC

tw04 wrote: post #468

brightball wrote: post #447

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Stuff like this drives the push for things like vouchers. I’m lucky to be able to send my kids to a good private school. We chose it after a tour and discussion with the headmaster about exactly how it operates. The teachers as a group research and plan curriculum. They coordinate across grade levels and determine how to roll out changes in the most effective way possible for students and parents as well. They rolled…

Well right, because they can kick out students who are disruptive and make them the public school systems problem. When the public school system becomes insolvent, what’s your solution for those students? They just don’t get an education? We hope someone else has a solution? Vouchers are a great way to permanently cement the cradle to prison cycle.

Vouchers are a great way to permanently cement the cradle to prison cycle.

You don't solve a problem by making it worse. Making smart and/or motivated kids stay in the same classrooms as disruptive and demotivated kids just turns the motivated kids into more disruptive and demotivated kids. Right now it looks like we can choose between some people getting educated, and almost nobody getting educated because of the disruptive environment.

Re: Life as a public school teacher in the San Francisco Bay Area in 2021

#505

Post by paulddraper » Sun, Jun 20, 2021, 5:09 AM UTC

ipaddr wrote: post #91

analog31 wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Playing devils advocate for a moment, as grading works right now, a kid can quickly dig themselves into a hole that they have no realistic way to get out of, e.g., by utterly bombing on an exam or missing a few assignments early in the semester. The motivation for that kid to progress any further is zero, yet they are imprisoned in the classroom for the duration of the semester. This hits very close to home for me, a…

Why do we have grades at all? Every year you progress to the next year. At the end of high school everyone takes a SAT test and they go to colleges. If you school kept telling you you were doing okay when you weren't you will do poorly on the sat test or poorly in your first year and be forced to dropout. I think these policies push the unpleasantness to the future where it is too late to fix it.

> Every year you progress to the next year.

Is that a SF thing? Because normally that is not true.

> Why do we have grades at all?

Class rankings, scholarships. Even besides that, it lets parents know how well or not their child is learning.

Re: Life as a public school teacher in the San Francisco Bay Area in 2021

#506

Post by mlyle » Sun, Jun 20, 2021, 5:10 AM UTC

giantg2 wrote: post #393

ericd wrote: post #383

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure, they can't be completely uninterested in teaching, since they're high school teachers - they're not being hired primarily for their research ability. Part of offering better salaries is also being able to be more selective with who you keep.

"Part of offering better salaries is also being able to be more selective with who you keep." If you are a private school, sure. This is not the case for unionized public schools. Did you hear of that famous case where a superintendent fired multiple teachers for abysmal performance and even abusive behavior and was forced by the courts/union to reinstate them with back pay? It's very eye opening.

Oddly enough, private schools can pay a fair bit less. At a private school, you get to avoid most of the disruption, have smaller class sizes, and teach brighter students on average. If you're passionate about what you're teaching, these are things you may value more than salary, so...

Re: Life as a public school teacher in the San Francisco Bay Area in 2021

#507

Post by nostrebored » Sun, Jun 20, 2021, 5:10 AM UTC

swinnipeg wrote: post #432

kickout wrote: post #418

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is that a location thing? Like, do places like Saskatoon have problems attracting people (weather)?

Nope. Teachers salaries would be similar to that across Canada. Software dev salaries would be very close, with some exceptions. Winnipeg/Calgary/Edmonton are all very similar to Saskatoon. There would be some higher paying opportunities in Van/Tor/Mtl. But an $200K individual contributor software dev is a truly a Unicorn in Canada. Lots of reasons, but the biggest is that simply don't have the ultra profitable FAANG…

Canadian software engineering salaries are bizarre though. I was making more in Africa than the average SDE in Vancouver

Re: Life as a public school teacher in the San Francisco Bay Area in 2021

#508

Post by dehrmann » Sun, Jun 20, 2021, 5:11 AM UTC

easton wrote: post #374

WalterBright wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The most important thing you can to to prepare for the SAT is do lots of practice tests. Oh phooey. I never prepared for the SATs, and nobody I knew did, either. (Back in the 70s.) Wanna know how to do well on the SATs? Pay attention in school to readin, ritin, and rithmetic. As for SAT prep books, I see them all the time in the thrift store for a couple bucks. The notion that only the wealthy have access to them i…

College Board worked with Khan Academy to put a free SAT prep course (with practice questions that it uses to figure out what you need to work on) together. Even if you don’t have internet at home, you could definitely get enough prep with an hour at a library or your lunch period a day. I boosted my score 100 points and only did 15-20 hours prior.

I think 15-20 hours of prep is reasonable, especially when it can be over months. I bet it would have taken more like 200 hours for another 100 points (which I why I don't think the test is as easily gamed as test detractors say).

Re: Life as a public school teacher in the San Francisco Bay Area in 2021

#509

Post by paulddraper » Sun, Jun 20, 2021, 5:11 AM UTC

HDMI_Cable wrote: post #126

somethingor wrote: post #118

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> can read, write, use basic math operations, know a few facts about the country they live in and speak in a way that doesn't require his fellow countrymen to use subtitles This seems achievable by the 8th grade.

Yeah, by this metric, school should stop when kids are 12.

It used to.

Re: Life as a public school teacher in the San Francisco Bay Area in 2021

#510

Post by zepto » Sun, Jun 20, 2021, 5:11 AM UTC

dane-pgp wrote: post #270

zepto wrote: post #120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> and making the resources available to those schools available How would you do this? It seems like it’s impossible to tax the group of people who would have sent their kids to private school had it been possible . Equally it seems impossible to force the people who would have chosen teaching careers at private schools to work at comprehensive schools. That, and the fact that one of the ‘resources’ that private scho…

> It seems like it’s impossible to tax the group of people who would have sent their kids to private school had it been possible. Fortunately it is possible to do something very similar, though, which is to tax the group of people who have the level of income that would allow them to send their kids to private school had it been possible. I suppose you're saying that some people currently are wealthy enough to send t…

> Fortunately it is possible to do something very similar, though, which is to tax the group of people who have the level of income that would allow them to send their kids to private school had it been possible.

Except it isn’t similar.

Saying ‘taxing the rich more and put more money into public schools’ may be a good proposal but it is a completely different proposition from ‘take the resources from private schools and give them to public schools’.

Money is not in fact educational resources.