Life as a public school teacher in the San Francisco Bay Area in 2021 • Hacker News Board

Re: Life as a public school teacher in the San Francisco Bay Area in 2021

#471

Post by cracker-news » Sun, Jun 20, 2021, 4:24 AM UTC

TedDoesntTalk wrote: post #161

mmarq wrote: post #145

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Did you read the article? Yes, selective admissions filter out “bad” students including the type of students who don’t care about school who hold back students who do care What do we do about these 10 year olds? We assume they are not "high school" material and we put them in the school for dumb kids? Do these 10 year old not care about school because there is something intrinsically wrong about them and so the sch…

> Do these 10 year old not care about school because there is something intrinsically wrong about them Each child, like each adult, has different motivations in life. Not all children are equally motivated for schoolwork. > The admission test is not racist per se, but if it results in, say, blacks not being admitted to an institution, it exist in a framework that materially enables racism No. You need to look at conf…

> Each child, like each adult, has different motivations in life. Not all children are equally motivated for schoolwork.

Honestly dude, go fuck yourself!

Re: Life as a public school teacher in the San Francisco Bay Area in 2021

#472

Post by throwaway894345 » Sun, Jun 20, 2021, 4:25 AM UTC

brightball wrote: post #447

6f8986c3 wrote: post #364

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Teaching doesn’t attract highly paid workers because in addition to a big pay cut those workers would be considering likely worse working conditions as well. You could double teacher pay and it wouldn't make a lick of difference. As a teacher, you have no control over your classroom. Disruptive students that destroy everybody else's learning environment? Too bad. No Child Left Behind! Wait, that's the old slogan, w…

Stuff like this drives the push for things like vouchers. I’m lucky to be able to send my kids to a good private school. We chose it after a tour and discussion with the headmaster about exactly how it operates. The teachers as a group research and plan curriculum. They coordinate across grade levels and determine how to roll out changes in the most effective way possible for students and parents as well. They rolled…

> Yet for some reason in the US this is a political hot button, which doesn’t make any sense to me.

I share in your bafflement. Charitably, perhaps they reason that parents will pick schools that are worse on average than public schools, but I suspect it is more of a “equality demands poor schooling regardless of class” with a side of “the state gets to determine the values your child is taught”.

Re: Life as a public school teacher in the San Francisco Bay Area in 2021

#473

Post by [deleted] » Sun, Jun 20, 2021, 4:25 AM UTC

glitchc wrote: post #291

In North America, teachers are grossly underpaid and their ability to discipline poor performance has been entirely eviscerated. It’s not just SF, look at what’s happening in Vancouver: https://nationalpost.com/opinion/rex-murphy-cutting-honours-... The problem is the administration: The board that sets the standards and the parents and politicians who sit on those boards. The solution is this: Ban anyone without a m…

[deleted]

Re: Life as a public school teacher in the San Francisco Bay Area in 2021

#474

Post by adolph » Sun, Jun 20, 2021, 4:27 AM UTC

dantheman wrote: post #423

glitchc wrote: post #291

In North America, teachers are grossly underpaid and their ability to discipline poor performance has been entirely eviscerated. It’s not just SF, look at what’s happening in Vancouver: https://nationalpost.com/opinion/rex-murphy-cutting-honours-... The problem is the administration: The board that sets the standards and the parents and politicians who sit on those boards. The solution is this: Ban anyone without a m…

How about attach the money spent on a school to the child, and let the teachers/administrators compete just like everything else. You can create specialized roles, pay more, focus on X, whatever you want. The school system is a failing monopoly that should be broken up.

This has been used successfully in long-term care. The concept is called "Money Follows the Person."

Money Follows the Person (MFP) Rebalancing Demonstration is part of a comprehensive, coordinated strategy to assist U.S. states, in collaboration with stakeholders, to make widespread changes to their long-term care support systems. This initiative will assist states in their efforts to reduce their reliance on institutional care, while developing community-based long-term care opportunities, enabling the elderly and people with disabilities to fully participate in their communities.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Money_Follows_the_Person

Re: Life as a public school teacher in the San Francisco Bay Area in 2021

#475

Post by zbrozek » Sun, Jun 20, 2021, 4:27 AM UTC

pacbard wrote: post #78

jessriedel wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This form is required to be in compliance with the CA ed code as parents have the right to appeal failing grades and not being notified is probably an enough reason for the district to change a failing grade to a passing one in case of a lawsuit/complaint. If this were the reason for the new forms, why would the school only have teachers fill out the form if the student were guaranteed to fail? I'd think the school…

I dug up SFUSD board policy [1] around failing notifications. The policy reads: "Whenever it becomes evident to a teacher that a student is in danger of failing a course, the teacher shall arrange a conference with the student's parent/guardian or send the parent/guardian a written report. The refusal of the parent to attend the conference, or to respond to the written report, shall not preclude failing the pupil at…

The policy doesn't surprise me, but it does sadden me. Why should the failure be contingent on trying to have a meeting with the parents? I always get the feeling there's more paperwork in CA than any of the other states.

Re: Life as a public school teacher in the San Francisco Bay Area in 2021

#476

Post by alexashka » Sun, Jun 20, 2021, 4:29 AM UTC

glitchc wrote: post #291

In North America, teachers are grossly underpaid and their ability to discipline poor performance has been entirely eviscerated. It’s not just SF, look at what’s happening in Vancouver: https://nationalpost.com/opinion/rex-murphy-cutting-honours-... The problem is the administration: The board that sets the standards and the parents and politicians who sit on those boards. The solution is this: Ban anyone without a m…

The problem is the existence of mandatory education, propped up by government.

Let me fix that for you - get rid of government schools, let anyone teach.

Re: Life as a public school teacher in the San Francisco Bay Area in 2021

#477

Post by verisimilidude » Sun, Jun 20, 2021, 4:32 AM UTC

ALittleLight wrote: post #329

verisimilidude wrote: post #225

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You’re describing Finland. They outlawed private school funding for exactly the reason you’re proposing: to get the wealthiest and most engaged parents invested in fixing public schools for all. It worked. They have one of the best public education systems in the world.

This is a big oversimplification. There are many differences in education between Finland and the US. Pointing to a single one and declaiming it as the cause is unjustified. As a counter example, the OECD PISA ranking for education puts Estonia as just barely ahead of Finland[1]. Estonia has public and private schools[2]. So, it is at least possible to have Finland quality schools while maintaining a public and priva…

It’s a Finland solution to a Finland problem. I don’t intend to suggest it as anything more. Only to show the parent commenter that his/her idea is not so radical; there’s precedent elsewhere in the world.

Re: Life as a public school teacher in the San Francisco Bay Area in 2021

#478

Post by throwaway894345 » Sun, Jun 20, 2021, 4:32 AM UTC

tw04 wrote: post #468

brightball wrote: post #447

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Stuff like this drives the push for things like vouchers. I’m lucky to be able to send my kids to a good private school. We chose it after a tour and discussion with the headmaster about exactly how it operates. The teachers as a group research and plan curriculum. They coordinate across grade levels and determine how to roll out changes in the most effective way possible for students and parents as well. They rolled…

Well right, because they can kick out students who are disruptive and make them the public school systems problem. When the public school system becomes insolvent, what’s your solution for those students? They just don’t get an education? We hope someone else has a solution? Vouchers are a great way to permanently cement the cradle to prison cycle.

Why should disruptive students be tolerated in public school classrooms? Does the disruptive student actually get an education simply by virtue of being in the classroom? He certainly drags his peers down, but how much is he actually educated in the process, and is that worth the harm he does his peers?

> Vouchers are a great way to permanently cement the cradle to prison cycle.

I could as easily say they are a way out of the cradle to prison cycle for many at risk youths.

Re: Life as a public school teacher in the San Francisco Bay Area in 2021

#479

Post by throwkeep » Sun, Jun 20, 2021, 4:34 AM UTC

mindvirus wrote: post #64

One of the most radical beliefs I have is we should get rid of private schools, because it lets the people most capable of forcing change to opt out of an increasingly broken system, and so it doesn't get fixed. Of course I say this as I seriously consider sending my kids to a private school because of articles like this.

I think a better solution is funding students instead of systems. Give everyone the ability to opt out of broken systems, force all schools to compete for students.

Re: Life as a public school teacher in the San Francisco Bay Area in 2021

#480

Post by xienze » Sun, Jun 20, 2021, 4:35 AM UTC

yaitsyaboi wrote: post #104

refurb wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You’re cheating that kid. They’re going to get pushed into the next grade and fall further behind until they graduate and can’t do basic math.

I don't think theres a school district in the country that will advance a kid with a 50% average to the next grade. Idk if there's some arcane No Child Left Behind provision about kids who have been stuck for 3 years, but in general a 50% is a no go. And it's not like you can get 50s all year and get a few 80s and average it out. It takes a lot of really sustained effort to come back from that. Most kids won't. But a…

> I don't think theres a school district in the country that will advance a kid with a 50% average to the next grade.

You’d be wrong to assume that. Here’s a kid that made it to 12th grade having only ever passed 4 classes. 0.13 GPA, and that actually put him in the top 50% of his class. Things are much, much worse than you think.

https://foxbaltimore.com/news/project-baltimore/city-student...