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Ivermectin for Prevention and Treatment of Covid-19 Infection

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241–250 of 644 posts

Re: Ivermectin for Prevention and Treatment of Covid-19 Infection

#241

Let’s not forget the censorship of the lab leak hypothesis. A few months ago it was a racist theory that constituted thoughtcrime and couldn’t be mentioned, and now the mainstream thinking is that it’s the most likely explanation.

I have downvoted you, because I believe that it is a complete fabrication to claim that the mainstream thinking is "that it's the most likely explanation". As far as I can tell, most experts have settled on "unlikely but possible".

I would be happy to "undown" you if you can provide evidence.

Re: Ivermectin for Prevention and Treatment of Covid-19 Infection

#242
post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Source for the EUA stuff? https://www.fdanews.com/ext/resources/files/archives/e/Emerg... (PDF warning)(section III, the first list, point #4) >Source that HCQ and zinc are viable treatments? Dozens? Hundreds? of doctors speaking out, including videos posted to youtube, that they saw great effectiveness in the trial. The people promoting it weren't a bunch of nobodys, despite what the nightly news told you. There we…

>Do you have any evidence it's not effective? Do you have any evidence snake oil isn't effective? Burden of proof is on the people claiming a magic cure. Anyway here are a couple of studies that show it's not effective. https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1002/jmv.27122 https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/2777389 Here's a good take by someone that does research on new medicines. https://blogs.science…

And there are papers which show that it does. Rather than descend into a 'my list of papers denoting effectiveness is bigger than your's suggesting the opposite' contest, I suggest you go to http://www.freefullpdf.com/#gsc.tab=0 and do some objective searching yourself preferably without a prior agenda.

Re: Ivermectin for Prevention and Treatment of Covid-19 Infection

#243

The antiparasitic ivermectin, with antiviral and anti-inflammatory properties That makes me wonder at the mechanism and biological pathways involved in how this works at all on anything and how that intersects with Covid-19. I'm alive in part because for some years my best friend was a former registered nurse who had let her nursing license lapse while she raised her special-needs sons and pursued training in various…

> You are asking questions for which they don't have answers. That's not how drug studies work

A doctor or nurse might not now the answer many times, which is fine, you can’t be an expert on all at once. But the latter is bullshit - any reputable drug study will elaborate (or worst case, speculate) on the action mechanism of the drug in detail. In the case of ivermectin, it’s supposed to inhibit viral replication, here is an example of a study diving into it: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S016635422...

Re: Ivermectin for Prevention and Treatment of Covid-19 Infection

#244

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I find this extremely worrying, to be honest. They are legal and widely used drugs in most countries. They might not be miracle drugs to treat COVID-19, but I don't see the point in this ban.

Because people are idiots and will try and self-medicate, potentially making themselves really ill.

Some people in Brazil did this. What happened? They got drug-induced hepatitis by wrong usage of Ivermectin.

Re: Ivermectin for Prevention and Treatment of Covid-19 Infection

#245
post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please don't take HN threads further into flamewar, especially not on divisive topics. We all know that anecdotes aren't statistical evidence. That doesn't make them offtopic. They're interesting, and they're the lifeblood of conversation. Generally on HN the approach is to trust readers to be able to make their own minds. https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&que... If you wouldn't mind reviewing…

We all know that anecdotes aren't statistical evidence. That doesn't make them offtopic. They're interesting They were interesting before they were weaponized by politicians. Then they became a threat. This crap doesn't belong here, dang. Seriously.

I don't see any reason to think that mikeytown2's comment is being weaponized by politicians or that mikeytown2 is a weaponizing politician.

My purview is limited to HN and I try never to extrapolate beyond that, but as far as HN goes, we've always favored the principle that readers are smart enough to make up their own minds. I've been saying that for 7 years (https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&que...) and I don't think that the crises and tectonic shifts of the past few years have given any reason to change that. (It has been a lot of work trying to shore up a culture of thoughtful commenting, with mixed results, but that's a separate issue.) IMO you guys should worry less about restricting what other people might see or think and worry more about finding the best information and the best arguments to persuade each other with.

To repeat, lest anyone misunderstand: my remarks are limited to HN, which is the space I've observed enough to speak about. I'm not saying HN is an exception, and I'm not saying it isn't an exception; I don't know.

Edit: two more points. First, I think there's a perspective bias here. We all assume that we're the smart one capable of making judgments about what the dumber ones might think, but literally everyone sees themselves that way. That shows not only that we can't all be right about that, but—more interestingly—that this entire line of thinking is invalid. It's a hard-wired unreliable narrator.

Second and last, if HN readers aren't smart enough to make up their own minds, then this place is fucked, so we might as well make a Pascal's wager.

Re: Ivermectin for Prevention and Treatment of Covid-19 Infection

#246
post #208

Let’s not forget the censorship of the lab leak hypothesis. A few months ago it was a racist theory that constituted thoughtcrime and couldn’t be mentioned, and now the mainstream thinking is that it’s the most likely explanation.

I remember it differently as not a "lab leak hypothesis" but a claim that the virus was not from nature but was a man-made virus, to wit: "I can present solid scientific evidence to our audience that this virus, COVID-19 SARS-CoV-2 virus, actually is not from nature. It is a man-made virus created in the lab." — Dr. Li-Meng Yan on the Tucker Carlson show.

Exactly - the problem isn't the consideration of a lab leak as a possible source, it's the presentation of that theory embellished well beyond what's plausible without any evidence - and then suggesting it's not just a far out there possibility, but actually the most likely source. And all that when it was a convenient diversionary tactic - looking for a scapegoat.

Let's not forget that not only is the lab leak theory to this day just one possibility, it's still not backed by much evidence, whereas many other viruses have jumped species before without needing a lab.

Finally, even in the unlikely event it turns out to have leaked from the lab and we manage to get convincing evidence of that now, that doesn't actually make those claims last year any more defensible. It's not OK to spout wild claims without evidence - even though if you do so often enough, you'll get lucky sometimes. Even a broken clock is right twice a day, but that does not mean breaking clocks is a valid strategy for telling the time.

And unless I'm missing something, it's just not plausible that fox news or mike pompeo or whoever had some secret evidence - if they had it, they would have shared it, somebody would have leaked it, or at the very least other corroborating sources would have appeared. None of that happened: ergo they were lying at least by exaggeration - and that's assuming they even believed the story to be at least plausible.

Re: Ivermectin for Prevention and Treatment of Covid-19 Infection

#247
post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Without randomized trials you cannot recommend a drug because you cannot exclude confounders. It seems wrong to me to even speak of "overwhelming evidence" without a randomized trial or other sound ways to control or identify for confounders (e.g. causal models).

While randomized trials are certainly the gold-standard for determining if you should give a new drug to treat an arbitrary disease, that process is far too conservative during a pandemic where a huge majority of the world cannot access proper medical care. Ivermectin is already massively produced, used throughout the world, and cheap to manufacture (compared to new anti-Covid drugs). Even months ago before the benef…

I had the same opinion until my friend convinced me otherwise. The scientific community is taking a long-term approach here. If they were to recommend a drug based without a scientific trial, they risk losing the trust of the world (either from people who want them to only follow the science, and the risk that it is incorrect).

The anti-science block is growing, and they are loud. If they continue to grow it could be an even greater threat to humanity than COVID-19. Science is attempting to fight against it by retreating to a science-only corner, for better or for worse.

Re: Ivermectin for Prevention and Treatment of Covid-19 Infection

#248

I Googled Ivermectin meta-analysis. But instead of finding the article we're discussing now, I found a different meta-analysis. https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.05.21.21257595v... It concluded Ivermectin "did not reduce all-cause mortality, length of stay or viral clearance in RCTs in COVID-19 patients with mostly mild disease. IVM did not have effect on AEs or SAEs. IVM is not a viable option to treat CO…

Or it proves that meta-analyses are meaningless when you can pick the target studies at will.

Re: Ivermectin for Prevention and Treatment of Covid-19 Infection

#249

N=1. Me and my 2 year old had covid. My wife started ivermectin and never got sick. Shared bed and sick 2 year old wants mommy. Ivermectin didn't work for me (diarrhea) but my fever went from 102.7 down to 99 12 hours after HQC after 6 days of a slow downward spiral (fever kept going up and up every day). So for me, my take is the drugs absolutely worked.

this is not how science works

Actually, it does. It starts with data.

Sure, we can't conclude from his N=1 experiment that it definitely works.

But Youtube wants to conclude from N=0 that it definitely doesn't work, and they don't want the peasantry asking questions.

Re: Ivermectin for Prevention and Treatment of Covid-19 Infection

#250
post #208

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I remember it differently as not a "lab leak hypothesis" but a claim that the virus was not from nature but was a man-made virus, to wit: "I can present solid scientific evidence to our audience that this virus, COVID-19 SARS-CoV-2 virus, actually is not from nature. It is a man-made virus created in the lab." — Dr. Li-Meng Yan on the Tucker Carlson show.

That could be what you call a „limited hangout“. You only admit what you can’t hide any longer. Firstly it was a no-go to claim it came from the lab. „It came from a wet market“ was the only truth you were allowed to claim without getting censored. Now that Fauci‘s emails are visible, it becomes more evident that the origin is a lab. Now you are only allowed to claim that it accidentally escaped from a lab. What’s ne…

Where exactly is this positive evidence it leaked from the Wuhan lab - and not just emails that considered the possibility it might have?
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