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Troubled teens left traumatised by tough love camps

bbc.com

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Re: Troubled teens left traumatised by tough love camps

#231

Post by cbanek »

yarcob wrote: post #63
DoreenMichele wrote: post #45

Cynthia remembers her daughter as a bright, thoughtful and athletic young girl who had always done well academically until she began suffering from mental health problems aged 14. Her struggles led her to become suicidal and begin experimenting with illegal drugs. When Erica was admitted to hospital and excluded from school, the family felt frightened and out of their depth. I am reminded of this piece from a few day…

You already reach a lot of people with your posts on HN. You are one of the few names I recognise and I always appreciate your comments. I'm sure I'm not the only one.

Totally agree with this one. And DoreenMichele I think you can totally do it, I love your writing and always notice your comments!

Re: Troubled teens left traumatised by tough love camps

#232

Post by Thiez »

thatfunkymunki wrote: post #221
Thiez wrote: post #211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Rates of sex and relationships among men and young boys have dropped precipitously. Perhaps I am reading this wrong, but it sounds a lot like you want a return of pederasty? Let's assume you mean relationships and sex with people of similar ages, what ages should we imagine when you say "young boys"?

I believe he isn't referring to sex between the two, just the total.

Well he did express a desire to return to traditional manliness, and you can't get more traditional than ancient Greece, right?

I think it's great that he managed to positively channel his masculinity, but I have my doubts at considering getting punched in the back of the head a good or acceptable thing, even though it may have had a positive outcome in his case. Perhaps I'm too feminized.

Re: Troubled teens left traumatised by tough love camps

#233

Post by [deleted] »

paulryanrogers wrote: post #188
TheAdamAndChe wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When growing up as a teenage male, there was a turning point in my mental development. I was sitting in class cracking jokes when this jerk kid stood up and punched me in the back of the head. I didn't know how to respond, so I just sat there. I was an out of shape kid who would have definitely lost. That event changed me. In the weeks and months ahead, anger and shame in my response led to a focused and intentional…

As a teen male of short stature there was no hope of exercise rescuing me from abusive peers. There were only appeals to authority, avoidance, attempts at deft commentary, or submission and befriending the problem. Any gender preference school systems may or may not have aren't really a factor when the bully has 180 lbs to ones 100 lbs.

[deleted]

Re: Troubled teens left traumatised by tough love camps

#234

Post by nate_meurer »

anm89 wrote: post #226
nextaccountic wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What do you think about your parents?

Writing this on here and getting a very positive response was surprisingly therapeutic for me. Thanks for asking

My knee-jerk reaction to your statement that you're no longer in contact with your parents was "good!"

There's something about your story that really, deeply fucking bothers me. I think its the part where you're taken from your home in the middle of the night. I can't adequately describe how that makes me feel, and I wonder why. I'm sorry that happened to you.

Regarding the silver lining, as it were, do you think your parents could have arranged another sort of intervention or experience to give you those benefits, with resorting to institutionalized abuse? Would a better sort of "camp" have worked for you?

Re: Troubled teens left traumatised by tough love camps

#235

Post by anm89 »

nate_meurer wrote: post #234
anm89 wrote: post #226

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Writing this on here and getting a very positive response was surprisingly therapeutic for me. Thanks for asking

My knee-jerk reaction to your statement that you're no longer in contact with your parents was "good!" There's something about your story that really, deeply fucking bothers me. I think its the part where you're taken from your home in the middle of the night. I can't adequately describe how that makes me feel, and I wonder why. I'm sorry that happened to you. Regarding the silver lining, as it were, do you think you…

Yeah it's tough. I don't think my partents are terrible people. They are products of their own trauma and struggles and stuff. At the end of the day the relationships were just bringing a lot fo negativity into my life and I just didn't have the energy for it.

In terms of the other ways to produce my experience without the downsides, absolutely yes and if I have kids I intend to try to do exactly that. They would have the final decision on it and it wouldn't be a surprise but basically some kind of intensive month or two outdoor survival training or something like that. Maybe I'd even just do it myself with them.

Re: Troubled teens left traumatised by tough love camps

#236

Post by anm89 »

spoonjim wrote: post #104
anm89 wrote: post #40

I went to one of these places when I was 13. Same thing, picked up in the middle of the night, and sent to a wilderness program that turned into 18 months of boarding school. The school was burnt down by the students a few years after I left and I got a couple thousand dollars in a class action lawsuit when it came out that they were hiring unlicensed therapists and admitting students who should have been in intensiv…

Can you give more detail about the intense challenges and in what way they developed your critical thinking and mindset? Interesting to hear that learning is possible even in such a traumatic environment.

The feeling of losing my freedom definitely got me started thinking about poltical philosophy at a young age in a very organic way.

Why do we have rules. Who should get to make and enforce rules. When should I follow a set of rules that are laid out for me. I don't think many 23 year olds have too many deep thoughts on stuff like that but I had a more intuitive sense of my own answers to those questions at that age after having the sense of losing my freedom and being treated in a manner that I perceived as deeply unfair.

Re: Troubled teens left traumatised by tough love camps

#237

Post by rawgabbit »

emptysongglass wrote: post #222
rawgabbit wrote: post #220

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I didn’t like Ender’s Game and it’s portrayal of military boot camp. I had no idea what the training in Enders Game was about besides bullying and cruelty and very simplistic tactics. I went through US military training in the early 90s. A lot of it was bullshit but the intent was clear to weed out those who cannot handle an incredible amount of stress while you get little sleep or rest. There was no physical or verb…

I went through Marines boot camp and that was a ton of verbal and psychological abuse. There were very clear restrictions on physically assaulting recruits -- if a recruit entered within five feet? of a Drill Instructor, they could consider it an attack on their person and physically react -- so the DIs would spread their arms out and run at us to force us into their "engagement zone". I saw a guy piss himself from t…

Sorry you went through that. I can only speak for myself and what I understand to be the norm. I know many countries’ boot camps still believe in the lie that abuse makes someone better. When/where was your boot camp?

Re: Troubled teens left traumatised by tough love camps

#238

Post by anchpop »

madaxe_again wrote: post #131
dash2 wrote: post #68

My first thought: wow, the US is crazy, I’m glad they don’t have this in the UK! Then I remembered that I was at a famous boarding school for five years, the most miserable years of my life. Thirty years later I’m still coping with the aftereffects. I think of that place as a form of institutionalised child abuse, and frankly if someone pipebombed it, I would not shed a tear. One simple thing: it wasn’t authoritarian…

I absolutely empathise, as a fellow survivor of a ridiculously expensive prison. I boarded from six until seventeen, when I finally finished and got the hell out of dodge. My sister, who attended the same secondary school as me, and had previously been at a coddled US private day school, was almost ruined by her experiences. Over a decade of therapy later, and she’s beginning to live. Throughout, it was (often school…

that’s insane, what causes people to act like that I wonder? do they have no compassion?

Re: Troubled teens left traumatised by tough love camps

#239

Post by rawgabbit »

emptysongglass wrote: post #222
rawgabbit wrote: post #220

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I didn’t like Ender’s Game and it’s portrayal of military boot camp. I had no idea what the training in Enders Game was about besides bullying and cruelty and very simplistic tactics. I went through US military training in the early 90s. A lot of it was bullshit but the intent was clear to weed out those who cannot handle an incredible amount of stress while you get little sleep or rest. There was no physical or verb…

I went through Marines boot camp and that was a ton of verbal and psychological abuse. There were very clear restrictions on physically assaulting recruits -- if a recruit entered within five feet? of a Drill Instructor, they could consider it an attack on their person and physically react -- so the DIs would spread their arms out and run at us to force us into their "engagement zone". I saw a guy piss himself from t…

FYI https://www.nbcnews.com/news/asian-america/marine-drill-inst...

https://taskandpurpose.com/news/marine-drill-instructors-les...

Re: Troubled teens left traumatised by tough love camps

#240

Post by madaxe_again »

anchpop wrote: post #238
madaxe_again wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I absolutely empathise, as a fellow survivor of a ridiculously expensive prison. I boarded from six until seventeen, when I finally finished and got the hell out of dodge. My sister, who attended the same secondary school as me, and had previously been at a coddled US private day school, was almost ruined by her experiences. Over a decade of therapy later, and she’s beginning to live. Throughout, it was (often school…

that’s insane, what causes people to act like that I wonder? do they have no compassion?

Institutionalisation. Everything is somebody else’s responsibility, and everything becomes about the metagame - working systems to your advantage, being the biggest asshole in the house and getting made prefect for it. Amongst students, it was all about social standing. Think prison gangs, but with posh British kids. Amongst staff, there were plenty who were good people, but also plenty who were there on a sinecure and were essentially untouchable.
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