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Ivermectin for Prevention and Treatment of Covid-19 Infection

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Re: Ivermectin for Prevention and Treatment of Covid-19 Infection

#171

Post by dang »

f38zf5vdt wrote: post #164

Ivermectin has to be one, presumptuously, of the most ridiculous foreign PSYOP interventions in recent memory. I believe that somewhere there's a bet going on for how many Westerners they can get taking dog medication thinking it makes them immune to COVID19. We already have a cure! In most countries, it's even _free_! And yet I read paranoid blogs online from conspiracy theorists who refuse a vaccine but guzzle down…

Please don't post flamebait to HN, and especially not on divisive topics. That amounts to trolling, in effect if not in intention, and it leads to exactly the opposite of what we're trying for here.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Edit: you posted this right after I asked you to stop doing it (https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27563671). If you pull a trick like that again, we will ban you.

Re: Ivermectin for Prevention and Treatment of Covid-19 Infection

#172

Post by azinman2 »

sveiss wrote: post #142
desine wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can't get EUA for the vaccines if there's a working treatment. The doctor who promoted Hydroxychloroquine and zinc treatment, Dr. Zelenko, is still banned from Twitter for spreading COVID disinformation. There's both actual conspiracies in this world, and well poisoning to damage the conversations. When you look at the amount of money these companies stand to make from producing billions of vaccinations, you shou…

> You can't get EUA for the vaccines if there's a working treatment. Veklury (remdesivir) was approved by the FDA for the treatment of Covid-19 in hospitalized individuals on October 22, 2020. This was a full approval, not an emergency use application: https://www.fda.gov/media/137574/download We've continued using the vaccines under the existing EUAs even after a treatment was approved. The FDA has granted additiona…

Not to mention it’s good to have treatment options in addition to a vaccine. Vaccines aren’t full-proof (treatment options are then good), some people legitimately can’t get vaccinated, and should there be a mutation the vaccines can’t handle then you still want treatment.

Re: Ivermectin for Prevention and Treatment of Covid-19 Infection

#173

Post by dang »

f38zf5vdt wrote: post #169
dang wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please don't take HN threads further into flamewar, especially not on divisive topics. We all know that anecdotes aren't statistical evidence. That doesn't make them offtopic. They're interesting, and they're the lifeblood of conversation. Generally on HN the approach is to trust readers to be able to make their own minds. https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&que... If you wouldn't mind reviewing…

My anecdote is exactly as valid as his. You can't prove the Sun God didn't cure me.

That's deeply, and I think obviously, not the point. Please stop now.

Re: Ivermectin for Prevention and Treatment of Covid-19 Infection

#174

Post by wonnage »

andreilys wrote: post #77
wonnage wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The warning is there because some people decided to self-medicate and bought veterinary doses and ODed.

You can also over-dose on dihydrogen monoxide - should we also ban any discussion on that?

I dunno how you made the jump from this warning to banning discussion

Re: Ivermectin for Prevention and Treatment of Covid-19 Infection

#175

Post by throwaway4good »

xibalba wrote: post #110
throwaway4good wrote: post #96

What is this thing with alt-right figures like Bret Weinstein (and others) promoting particular medicines / self-medication through theirs shows? It is weird and cult like - why not just stick to politics?

Doesn't Weinstein have PhD in biology? Surely that gives him some credibility.

Then he really should know better than to self-medicate and encourage others to do the same.

Re: Ivermectin for Prevention and Treatment of Covid-19 Infection

#176

Post by bmarquez »

void_mint wrote: post #15
goldemerald wrote: post #7

I heard about Ivermectin for the first time this week and was shocked how much it seemed that I had stepped into conspiracy theory land. There seemed to be an overwhelming amount of evidence over the last year that this repurposed drug is effective at treating Covid during a variety of stages (preventative, first positive test, ICU admittance, and even long haul). But since there hadn't been a randomized trial the dr…

> I truly hope in the coming years the censorship of this topic will be the catalyst for allowing free speech to prevail on social media. If someone died because of a "Take Ivermectin and you'll survive COVID" video on YouTube, who's to blame? Should YouTube not take steps to prevent the spread of misinformation that could kill people? edit Big downvotes, no response. Great system.

> If someone died because of a "Take Ivermectin and you'll survive COVID" video on YouTube, who's to blame?

Ivermectin is a prescription drug in the United States. A doctor would most likely reject the request if a patient asked for it solely on a YouTube recommendation. So to answer your question, a prescribing doctor.

IMO YouTube isn't medically qualified to censor ongoing research or debate, just stick a disclaimer and be done with it.

Re: Ivermectin for Prevention and Treatment of Covid-19 Infection

#177

Post by epicureanideal »

sveiss wrote: post #142
desine wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can't get EUA for the vaccines if there's a working treatment. The doctor who promoted Hydroxychloroquine and zinc treatment, Dr. Zelenko, is still banned from Twitter for spreading COVID disinformation. There's both actual conspiracies in this world, and well poisoning to damage the conversations. When you look at the amount of money these companies stand to make from producing billions of vaccinations, you shou…

> You can't get EUA for the vaccines if there's a working treatment. Veklury (remdesivir) was approved by the FDA for the treatment of Covid-19 in hospitalized individuals on October 22, 2020. This was a full approval, not an emergency use application: https://www.fda.gov/media/137574/download We've continued using the vaccines under the existing EUAs even after a treatment was approved. The FDA has granted additiona…

This is exactly why instead of censoring podcasts like Bret Weinstein when he brings on guests to discuss ivermectin, other experts should engage in debate with him.

When people who are credible scientists (like many of his guests) get censored it can reasonably look suspicious.

I'm not saying he's correct, I'm just saying the right answer is debate.

A person who is willing to have a calm, 3 hour discussion on a topic is not the kind of person who needs to be censored.

Re: Ivermectin for Prevention and Treatment of Covid-19 Infection

#178

Post by wrycoder »

reedjosh wrote: post #85
gmnash wrote: post #76

It's banned on YouTube because of multiple authoritative sources indicating it's not a safe and effective treatment for COVID-19. Here is the FDA's stance: https://www.fda.gov/consumers/consumer-updates/why-you-shoul... Here is the European equivalent of the AMA advising against it's use: https://www.ema.europa.eu/en/news/ema-advises-against-use-iv... Here is an RCT in JAMA finding it ineffective: https://jamanetwork…

There's a large body of evidence in the opposite direction as well. I just pulled the following from Bret Weinstein's show notes. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kSWjl-JOIqs British Ivermectin Recommendation Development group: https://bird-group.org The BIRD Recommendation on the Use of Ivermectin for Covid-19: Executive Summary: https://bird-group.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/03/bird-execu... Carvallo et al 2020. Stu…

In addition, there is this summary:

https://covid19criticalcare.com/ivermectin-in-covid-19/

and

https://journals.lww.com/americantherapeutics/fulltext/2021/...

Meta-analyses based on 18 randomized controlled treatment trials of ivermectin in COVID-19 have found large, statistically significant reductions in mortality, time to clinical recovery, and time to viral clearance. Furthermore, results from numerous controlled prophylaxis trials report significantly reduced risks of contracting COVID-19 with the regular use of ivermectin. Finally, the many examples of ivermectin distribution campaigns leading to rapid population-wide decreases in morbidity and mortality indicate that an oral agent effective in all phases of COVID-19 has been identified.

Edit: There's a mountain of data here:

https://ivmmeta.com/

Edit: Clip from that last link:

•While many treatments have some level of efficacy, they do not replace vaccines and other measures to avoid infection. Only 27% of ivermectin studies show zero events in the treatment arm. •Elimination of COVID-19 is a race against viral evolution. No treatment, vaccine, or intervention is 100% available and effective for all current and future variants. All practical, effective, and safe means should be used. Not doing so increases the risk of COVID-19 becoming endemic; and increases mortality, morbidity, and collateral damage.

Re: Ivermectin for Prevention and Treatment of Covid-19 Infection

#179

Post by wonnage »

sveiss wrote: post #142
desine wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can't get EUA for the vaccines if there's a working treatment. The doctor who promoted Hydroxychloroquine and zinc treatment, Dr. Zelenko, is still banned from Twitter for spreading COVID disinformation. There's both actual conspiracies in this world, and well poisoning to damage the conversations. When you look at the amount of money these companies stand to make from producing billions of vaccinations, you shou…

> You can't get EUA for the vaccines if there's a working treatment. Veklury (remdesivir) was approved by the FDA for the treatment of Covid-19 in hospitalized individuals on October 22, 2020. This was a full approval, not an emergency use application: https://www.fda.gov/media/137574/download We've continued using the vaccines under the existing EUAs even after a treatment was approved. The FDA has granted additiona…

It's hilarious how parent comment's opening sentence is a (easily debunked, as you've shown) conspiracy theory, and in the next breath they're trying to sound reasonable and Definitely Not a conspiracy theorist

Re: Ivermectin for Prevention and Treatment of Covid-19 Infection

#180

Post by f38zf5vdt »

dang wrote: post #171
f38zf5vdt wrote: post #164

Ivermectin has to be one, presumptuously, of the most ridiculous foreign PSYOP interventions in recent memory. I believe that somewhere there's a bet going on for how many Westerners they can get taking dog medication thinking it makes them immune to COVID19. We already have a cure! In most countries, it's even _free_! And yet I read paranoid blogs online from conspiracy theorists who refuse a vaccine but guzzle down…

Please don't post flamebait to HN, and especially not on divisive topics. That amounts to trolling, in effect if not in intention, and it leads to exactly the opposite of what we're trying for here. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html Edit: you posted this right after I asked you to stop doing it ( https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27563671 ). If you pull a trick like that again, we will ban you.

Citing Roman et al.

> Conclusions: In comparison to SOC or placebo, IVM did not reduce all-cause mortality, length of stay or viral clearance in RCTs in COVID-19 patients with mostly mild disease. IVM did not have effect on AEs or SAEs. IVM is not a viable option to treat COVID-19 patients. [1]

[1] https://www.medrxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.05.21.21257595v...

I would prefer to see a single RCT with at least a few thousand patients, but the early results aren't looking positive. It's a repeat of HCQ-AZ and that people are lending credence to RCTs with double digit cohorts is what causes people to rush out and eat medications intended for dogs. It _actively promotes harm to individuals who take medications for no reason, which have side effects_. I would prefer that HN not allow discussion of what appears to be medicine advice without a basis in clinical results.

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