Live data from Hacker News

Kids need freedom, too

persuasion.community

381–390 of 391 posts

Re: Kids need freedom, too

#381

It's great to allow your kids to take risks, and we do this with our own as much as we can (they're 1 and 3, so "within reason" is still doing some heavy lifting. I pick ticks off of them now and then and patch up their share of bruises). But fundamentally, what I want most is to be somewhere my kids can ride bikes or walk alone to school, to friends, to the shop, etc. from the age of 7 or so. As best I can tell that…

Lots of kids ride their bikes to my daughters elementary school, where we live in the United States. Safe small towns with functional sidewalks, for kids to ride bikes on as necessary, still happily exist in some places in our nation.

They do, but let’s talk about the elephant in the room. It’s expensive to live in these places. I found a suburb of Chicago where my kids could walk to school and I feel they’re safe, but my neighborhood is out of reach for most. So yeah, the idyllic American neighborhood still exists, but only for the relatively well off. That sucks.

Re: Kids need freedom, too

#382

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, the Irish countryside is beautiful, but not walkable. Both my wife and I grew up there, hence why we prioritized getting a walkable place in the suburbs.

Funny enough when we were looking it was either between the canals in Dublin or in the countryside. We looked at places in Clonsilla, etc. but they seemed really hostile to walking. Inside the canals was too expensive, sadly. I ended up getting a remote job and we moved to a few acres in Offaly, about a 15 minute bike ride from the train. It's beautiful and there's a lot to like (We even have a walking trail by the h…

Yeah, we looked at clonsilla too but it didn't work for the same reason. We managed to find something just over the m50 but still pretty walkable, in Laurel lodge.

I'm way too neurotic about the future to take the plunge and move away from Dublin, unfortunately.

Re: Kids need freedom, too

#383
post #273

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> the Netherlands, parts of Denmark, or perhaps Japan I think it's far more common than that -- actually, guessing wildly, I suspect most children around the world get themselves to school and that the US is the outlier. In Germany, where I live, and where my oldest will be starting school in two months, it's common and encouraged for kids to walk to school in their first year (age 6). Admittedly, ours is only a quar…

I live in Germany, too and can confirm. In Hungary, where I'm from, it's no different. What shocked me most in this article was the paragraph: > A mom wrote that she had been so encouraged that, at the grocery store, she allowed her son to leave her to get cheese from a different aisle. When he came back, she added, “That boy was six inches taller!” That mother never allowed her son to do that before before being enc…

I thought that was pretty fucked up as well. My kids are completely free range. When I was 5ish in Poland, I was going to buy bread from a stand about 1.5m away as my daily morning chore. Nobody batted an eye. I loved it, and my mom got her annoying son out of the house for 35 minutes a day: a win-win! Not sure why we infantilize kids in the US.

Re: Kids need freedom, too

#384

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's some minority of people who are just jerks on the road. Drivers that don't account for other road users. Cyclists who blow through intersections forcing cars and pedestrians to take evasive action. Pedestrians that expect wheeled vehicles to defy the laws of physics on their behalf. Beyond this minority damn near every road user (regardless of car vs bike vs pedestrian) behaves perfectly reasonably if you und…

The laws and unwritten rules exist for both your and other's protection on the road. So, that "just this once" blowing an intersection or red light might be this time that a huge crash happens or someone is killed. Not worth the few minutes saved. And if repeated, it's unforgivable.

Exhaust gas contributes to global warming and pollution kills people.

Every time a red light is blown without directly harming someone net negative externalities are reduced.

Re: Kids need freedom, too

#385
post #331
post #319

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Switzerland managed to figure out preschool/kindergarten system that literally puts even more limitations on mom then having kids at home.

What is the limitation on "moms" here? And btw, why having a limitation on one parent?

You have to take kids to kindergaten twice and bring them back twice. The time while they are there needs to be used for cooking lunch. They are not there long enough to allow much else. It literally gives you program for whole day without freeing you for other activitities. Being full time with the kid is literally better for that parent, because at least you can structure day how it suits you. (There is benefit for kid itself in terms of socialization, but that is difderent topic)

And I say moms because in Swiss it is moms who are expected to do it and forgo other activities while men are expected to go to work. Men are much less affected by above system.

Re: Kids need freedom, too

#386
post #385
post #331

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is the limitation on "moms" here? And btw, why having a limitation on one parent?

You have to take kids to kindergaten twice and bring them back twice. The time while they are there needs to be used for cooking lunch. They are not there long enough to allow much else. It literally gives you program for whole day without freeing you for other activitities. Being full time with the kid is literally better for that parent, because at least you can structure day how it suits you. (There is benefit for…

>You have to take kids to kindergaten twice and bring them back twice.

See that's exactly the mentality problem.

My mum was working too, at lunchtime we made for example a little fire in the wood and exchanged the food our parent packed in, from spaghetti to sausages and so on, made our own snake-bread etc. You have to be really crazy to think your children's have a problem do stuff for them self for 1.5 hours. If it was too cold we eat outside, went back into the school asked the teacher if we can play flight simulator on the apple2's. There is no need that the state has to organize everything for you..children's need freedom too, true?

Re: Kids need freedom, too

#387

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are plenty of stupid cyclists who don’t prioritize their own safety. One of my pet peeves is to have bikes on the road in the dark without lights. Most of these people are adults and they should know that a car driver can’t see them.

Cycling lights are the law in most places in Europe, it probably should be enforced in the US as well.

Just a curious question. Cycling lights are indeed the law in most parts of Europe[0]. Are there no laws in the US about cycling laws or are they not enforced?

[0] In my country cycling lights are traditionally used are traditionally used as a training ground for new police officers. These officers have to explain why you are actually breaking the law and also have to deal in a correct manner in the abuse from the perpetrators.

Re: Kids need freedom, too

#388

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You'd probably want to avoid citing Japanese TV shows as reference. They are all fake and completely scripted/heavily edited from start to finish.

True, but younger kids walk around by themselves (mostly in groups) all around Japan. Japan is a weird case though where the cities are safer than the countryside.

Not saying it's not true. Just saying taking a Japanese TV Show as a proof has 0 credibility.

Re: Kids need freedom, too

#389
post #379

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Gen X here. I started riding my bike in my neighborhood as soon as my next door neighbor took off the training wheels. It was a small neighborhood with clear boundaries. But as soon as I was 10 and 11 I was leaving to visit friends. I was thinking back recently to one forgotten friend who lived about 1.5 miles away and the pathway I would have taken to his house. It involved crossing two 6-lane divided highways and a…

> I was safe and patient. But I would be aghast to see it in action today. Do you think that's because you believe things are less safe now than when you were a kid? Or is it because societal norms around risks & children have changed?

I would say it is both.

I say that because when I pass the places I crossed those roads, the traffic itself looks downright frightening. I don't remember this many cars. I don't remember them going _this_ fast.

I spent a some time on my childhood street and saw some teens throwing football. The number of times they had to get out of the street for cars was surprising. And we never had to "dodge" oncoming cars when playing games in the street. I remember someone would say "car" and we would have plenty time to move.

As far as the stranger danger, as an adult male I have zero interest in helping any kids in need. If I saw a kid outside fell and scraped up their knees I would probably not come to their aid. Maybe text a female neighbor.

But as young teens we definitely came across creeps. A female friend's sister took us to a strip club when we were 14. With that as a baseline...

We did things that were dangerous in any context.

We explored abandoned buildings. We jumped on slow moving trains. We rode down steep hills and jumps without any helmets. Swung from insane tree rope swings, some from 10-15 foot tree branches and some from much higher. We climbed bridges under construction. Went out on ledges that seeing today make my feet tingle. We climbed the drive-in theater screen to the top. Carried old bikes up there and threw them off. My dad made me a zip line from my tree house, over the pool, and to a very small perch in a tree. You were meant to jump into the pool (4 feet deep). We made camp fires supervised and on our own. We shot weapons at 10. Explored remote creeks and piloted small craft (15 hp). Drove around the city a good year before my actual license. At 15 we would routinely drive to another state to go a beach. At night sometimes.

Apparently from typing this, I had a real love of heights when I was younger. We had a rope swing in the back yard tied up to a branch some 30 feet. I would climb to the top and grab the branch regularly.

I think I was considered a bit less adventurous than some of my friends. I honestly have no idea how we didn't die.

But as to your question. The city used to be covered with tree swings and I haven't seen one in ages. I would guess they are considered dangerous today, or moreso a liability. Helmets for bicycles were just _not_ a thing - a changed norm for society and myself very gladly. Kids still enjoy access to weaponry, especially in the deep south. But that will be supervised instead of some lessons and "here you go". I know of teenagers that go sailing, boating, etc. I think the age range simply shifted up a few years.

Re: Kids need freedom, too

#390

Earlier quoted context omitted.

True, but younger kids walk around by themselves (mostly in groups) all around Japan. Japan is a weird case though where the cities are safer than the countryside.

Not saying it's not true. Just saying taking a Japanese TV Show as a proof has 0 credibility.

Yes, it doesn't have credibility for what actually happens, but it can have credibility for what standards people / pop culture apply.

(And that's what my original comment talked about. Also, it's just a cute show.)

Post reply on HN