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The inventor of the black box was told to drop the idea

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Re: The inventor of the black box was told to drop the idea

#91

Post by Anarch157a »

zeusk wrote: post #41
WalterBright wrote: post #39

I've watched all the episodes of Aviation Disasters. The device missing from cockpits is the video recorder. Many investigations revolve around questions like what is the pilot looking at, what the instruments show, even who the heck is in the pilot's seat. Video can confirm switch settings and instrument readouts (the voice recorder is also used to confirm if the warning horns sounded properly). Instead, a lot of ef…

Couple of issues here; the first and foremost - recording people at their workplace. We can all argue how privacy is unreasonable in public but recording let alone pilots but anyone continuously at work will receive big pushback. Also video occupies much more data than most other streams of information stored on blackbox. This coupled with the fact that anything aviation related takes decades to get into widespread u…

This already happens. At least here in Brazil, offices have security cameras in pretty much every environment, except the restrooms.

An office is a shared environment, usually not owned by the people who work there, that exists only for job related activities. Just like companies can monitor your company issued email, network traffic and cell phone, they can monitor your activities in the workspace.

I'm a privacy advocate, I avoid Google and Facebook as much as I can, but even I understand the difference between private and professional life. One has an assumption of privacy, the other doesn't.

Re: The inventor of the black box was told to drop the idea

#92

Post by zaroth »

fighterpilot wrote: post #90
jacquesm wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, that was pioneered by Ransom E. Olds. That doesn't stop Ford from repeating this at every opportunity but it isn't really true. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ransom_E._Olds

Which car company was using division of labor before Ford?

Olds-mobile, of course.

Re: The inventor of the black box was told to drop the idea

#93

Post by wizzwizz4 »

ajarmst wrote: post #89
WalterBright wrote: post #39

I've watched all the episodes of Aviation Disasters. The device missing from cockpits is the video recorder. Many investigations revolve around questions like what is the pilot looking at, what the instruments show, even who the heck is in the pilot's seat. Video can confirm switch settings and instrument readouts (the voice recorder is also used to confirm if the warning horns sounded properly). Instead, a lot of ef…

It would be less useful than you’d think. Pilots are trained to articulate what they are doing and generally follow very well-practiced procedures. Another pilot can quite accurately reproduce what a pilot is doing just from the transcript, and the warning horns and other indicators are quite expressive of other things. The audio is good enough to hear breakers opening. Anything a video camera could see out the windo…

In the vast, vast majority of cases, yes. However, black boxes are only used in the minority where something has gone horribly wrong.

Re: The inventor of the black box was told to drop the idea

#94

Post by snowwrestler »

kwdc wrote: post #6

Wow. History hasn't been kind. As is often the case around limited-mindset thinking. From TFA: "civil authorities said that “Dr Warren’s instrument has little immediate direct use in civil aircraft.” The Royal Australian Air Force likewise decided that “such a device is not required—the recorder would yield more expletives than explanations.” Well. No. Multiple air crashes across the world relied on recordings as a k…

It’s kind of funny to see basically the same arguments being offered against video recording in this very thread on HN.

Re: The inventor of the black box was told to drop the idea

#95

Post by wizzwizz4 »

seoaeu wrote: post #69
codetrotter wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even then I don’t get why someone would object. But of course hindsight is 20/20 so that may be why. Having a black box in all aircraft would help me too, because other crashes are better understood. Then again I also do want my death to be maximally useful to others should I die, so that at least I don’t die completely in vain. I don’t want to live forever, but I don’t want my life to end abruptly and outside of my…

What they might learn is that the crash was your fault. It isn't clear that's the legacy you'd really want to have.

And they might learn that it wasn't, thus clearing your name.

In the aviation world, people aren't at fault. Processes are.

Re: The inventor of the black box was told to drop the idea

#96

Post by garaetjjte »

bruce343434 wrote: post #54
WalterBright wrote: post #39

I've watched all the episodes of Aviation Disasters. The device missing from cockpits is the video recorder. Many investigations revolve around questions like what is the pilot looking at, what the instruments show, even who the heck is in the pilot's seat. Video can confirm switch settings and instrument readouts (the voice recorder is also used to confirm if the warning horns sounded properly). Instead, a lot of ef…

If I was a pilot I'd hate to be constantly surveilled by a camera, even if the footage is "never reviewed". In fact, it's got nothing to do with being a pilot.

>even if the footage is "never reviewed"

Why the scare quotes? It would be literally never reviewed unless incident occurs, as it would be on overwriting loop.

Re: The inventor of the black box was told to drop the idea

#97

Post by shultays »

ineedasername wrote: post #75

magnetized steel wire as the recording medium. I had no idea that was how recordings were (or at least could) be made at the time. Of course it makes sense-- early use of magnetic tape was something like nickel coated bronze, so there's no reason a wire couldn't also work. Just a bit of electronics history I wasn't aware of that I thought interesting.

Here is a video on them https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=90ihiTwJPCc

Re: The inventor of the black box was told to drop the idea

#98

Post by bruce343434 »

gccs wrote: post #58
bruce343434 wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If I was a pilot I'd hate to be constantly surveilled by a camera, even if the footage is "never reviewed". In fact, it's got nothing to do with being a pilot.

Don't buy a Tesla then. They have cameras pointing at you and recording while driving.

I'm not gonna?

Re: The inventor of the black box was told to drop the idea

#99

Post by algorias »

Anarch157a wrote: post #91
zeusk wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Couple of issues here; the first and foremost - recording people at their workplace. We can all argue how privacy is unreasonable in public but recording let alone pilots but anyone continuously at work will receive big pushback. Also video occupies much more data than most other streams of information stored on blackbox. This coupled with the fact that anything aviation related takes decades to get into widespread u…

This already happens. At least here in Brazil, offices have security cameras in pretty much every environment, except the restrooms. An office is a shared environment, usually not owned by the people who work there, that exists only for job related activities. Just like companies can monitor your company issued email, network traffic and cell phone, they can monitor your activities in the workspace. I'm a privacy adv…

Note that this is not the case in all jurisdictions. In many European countries, the company cannot monitor employees' corporate emails without specific justification.

Re: The inventor of the black box was told to drop the idea

#100

Post by quintushoratius »

ineedasername wrote: post #75

magnetized steel wire as the recording medium. I had no idea that was how recordings were (or at least could) be made at the time. Of course it makes sense-- early use of magnetic tape was something like nickel coated bronze, so there's no reason a wire couldn't also work. Just a bit of electronics history I wasn't aware of that I thought interesting.

I think part of the reason for using wire was for fire proofing. The recording would be salvageable even after intense fires.

Later recorders used plastic tape but also have a water vessel. As the water boils it keeps the interior from going above 100C - until it boils away. The recorders are rated for maybe 30-60 minutes of direct exposure.

Recent recorders use solid state storage and, still, water to keep the internal temperature lower.

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