An unwanted update to your Google Account • Hacker News Board

Re: An unwanted update to your Google Account

#121

Post by compiler-guy » Sat, Jun 19, 2021, 5:55 PM UTC

developer93 wrote: post #116

jfrunyon wrote: post #26

> There is a disadvantage for me, because the privacy laws in Europe are stronger than Asia, I lose some privacy protection. You don't lose privacy protection by virtue of Google changing your location. You lose privacy protection by not being a resident of the jurisdiction with those laws.

But if a company has you down as being in country x, how do they know to apply the laws from country y? This is a practical rather than legal point

If the company has you down in country A, then they apply the rules for country A. But there are many signs they use to determine what country you are actually in.

Apparently there were enough signs in this case to conclude he had been in Malaysia long enough to trigger the rule.

Re: An unwanted update to your Google Account

#122

Post by twirlock » Sat, Jun 19, 2021, 5:56 PM UTC

Jaygles wrote: post #2

I understand the author's frustration. But until someone finds out how a company that operates globally can satisfy the laws of the countries their customers are located in without associating the accounts with a country, I'm not sure what we can do. > What I find curious is that it says the services are essentially the same between different countries. So, there is no advantage to me as a consumer for anything to ch…

The issue of contention is how they determine the country, apparently even as the user in question is contesting. i.e. your comment is an irrelevant deflection that adds nothing to the discussion, and you are functionally doing PR for Google for free.

Re: An unwanted update to your Google Account

#123

Post by lbotos » Sat, Jun 19, 2021, 5:56 PM UTC

692 wrote: post #76

lbotos wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Actually, in many countries, yes, a "tax resident". For the UK it's 31 days of more than 3 hours of work. I think it's the same for the US.

it's bit more complex than that (I've suffered regarding this) The Automatic Overseas Test You would normally be considered a non-UK resident if you meet any one of the following elements of the Automatic Overseas Test: You were considered as a UK resident in one or more of the previous three tax years, but you spend fewer than 16 days in the UK in the current tax year You spend fewer than 46 days in the UK in the ta…

You're right, I shortcutted it. I've read this page so many times and just jumped to the "hyper conservative take".

Re: An unwanted update to your Google Account

#124

Post by compiler-guy » Sat, Jun 19, 2021, 5:58 PM UTC

This problem is just a specific instance of the more general “expat problem”. When you move countries, you have to deal with the new country’s rules. Many people who move countries run into unexpected differences. You have to roll with it and deal.

Re: An unwanted update to your Google Account

#125

Post by fpgaminer » Sat, Jun 19, 2021, 6:04 PM UTC

I got this email a week or two ago, but Google sent a follow up email shortly thereafter clarifying that it was sent in mistake. I'm curious, were only some of those emails sent by mistake? Or were all of them? If the latter, perhaps the OP's concerns are unfounded as of yet.

Re: An unwanted update to your Google Account

#126

Post by type0 » Sat, Jun 19, 2021, 6:07 PM UTC

ipaddr wrote: post #57

qwertox wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Many others? I only know of ProtonMail. Then there's mailbox.org and Posteo, but both are required to provide access to the government [1]. Their only option is to provide end-to-end encryption, like ProtonMail does. I wouldn't trust any other email provider than one of those three, if I would need to have truly secure emailing via a 3rd party. But none are in a different position that Google, maybe with exception of…

I would only trust my own server and even then.

put it under your bed so that you could immediately notice if anyone tries to access it while you asleep

Re: An unwanted update to your Google Account

#127

Post by seoaeu » Sat, Jun 19, 2021, 6:12 PM UTC

croes wrote: post #107

reaperducer wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unlike computer code, laws tend to have wiggle room. IANAL, but I expect in this case "best effort" is good enough.

How but just asking your customer instead of guessing by unreliable factors?

Is there any reason to believe that asking would be remotely reliable? There's a reason that liquor stores don't just ask people whether they're over 21.

Re: An unwanted update to your Google Account

#128

Post by type0 » Sat, Jun 19, 2021, 6:14 PM UTC

chki wrote: post #66

ipaddr wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The GDPR does apply to non-EU based services but no enforcement is possible. So it doesn't matter where you live if the service is out of reach of this law.

>The GDPR does apply to non-EU based services That's only correct with regards to the processing of data subjects who are in the European Union. See Art. 3.2 of the GDPR.

Here's how Madison.com handles this:

"451: Unavailable due to legal reasons

We recognize you are attempting to access this website from a country belonging to the European Economic Area (EEA) including the EU which enforces the General Data Protection Regulation (GDPR) and therefore access cannot be granted at this time. For any issues, contact ..."

Re: An unwanted update to your Google Account

#129

Post by rsj_hn » Sat, Jun 19, 2021, 6:24 PM UTC

croes wrote: post #81

remram wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes I find it weird that they both resent having local laws apply (when it's Malaysia) but value being covered by GDPR (when it's Germany). I can't really understand what they are wishing for.

Both are german citizens and both are not in the country to which they are now to be assigned. The latter wasn't even in Thailand at all. So I guess they just don't want that Google makes some bullshit associations for them which undermie the GDPR.

So you are saying if a German citizen travels to Mexico, they don't need to obey Mexican law because they are German citizens?

Suppose a law in Mexico requires Google to store search queries and make them available to the government for 1 year, or it requires the collection of certain types of personal information, and a law in Germany bans Google from storing search queries or collecting the information. Now a German citizen travels to Mexico, and does a web query in Mexico, do you think Google should apply Germany's Laws or Mexico's laws? It will apply Mexico's laws because that is the jurisdiction in which the query is made. Similarly if a Mexican travels to Germany and makes a query, then Google will not store the results.

Btw, this is the whole point of international VPNs. People want an internet presence in different countries in order to access content that is not available in their own country or to be treated differently than if they were in their own countries. So if you, as the German traveller, don't want your query stored, you'd VPN to a server in Germany and run your queries through that VPN. If you ran your query through the Mexican ISP, you can be sure that the information would be collected.

Thus as much as European governments may want the GDPR to be a type of shield that you can carry with you when you cross over to other jurisdictions, the reality of that portability is limited to the ability of European nations to convince other nations to go along and treat Europeans differently in their own legal system. It may work, it may not, but whether it works is not a question of the GDPR but of the ability of Europe to project power and override laws in other jurisdictions.

Re: An unwanted update to your Google Account

#130

Post by floatingatoll » Sat, Jun 19, 2021, 7:02 PM UTC

izacus wrote: post #80

floatingatoll wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That is technically correct, but ultimately unhelpful in the context of the post. I’ve rewritten my question to address your objections to my phrasing. Is Google required to comply with GDPR data and deletion requests made by EU citizens that Google has deemed to be be residing in Malaysia? Since you’re familiar with GDPR, I would appreciate your opinion on it.

No, GDPR explicitly speaks about EU residents and not citizens. Which means that OP is not covered, but an American living in France is.

Alright. I’m glad I asked, even if my phrasing sucked, because it uncovers why they’re doing this.