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Massachusetts health notifications app installed without users’ knowledge

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Re: Massachusetts health notifications app installed without users’ knowledge

#241

Post by riekus »

kuschku wrote: post #12
boredpudding wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The worrying part is that it was installed without consent.

There’s nothing worrying about that. You get tons of apps installed without consent (including whatever spam your network provider pushes on you). This app can actually save lives without sacrificing any privacy, pushing it to users is something that has no drawbacks. The largest trouble for the German version of the app was that not enough people installed it. Choosing to install it automatically isn’t something nef…

It is a slippery slope, the boundaries keep getting pushed, I think no one really cares about the app but just the fact that for some people it apparently is hidden installed.

Re: Massachusetts health notifications app installed without users’ knowledge

#242

Post by bonoboTP »

kortex wrote: post #227
bonoboTP wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Still too complicated. I saw a comic version once, working through an actual example with some example IDs and it used phrases like "sends to the hospital" or "asks the hospital" etc. instead of downloading from the cloud. Very non-technical people are not familiar with the basic concepts involved. "Makes up a new random name and broadcasts it to nearby phones" is something they'd struggle with if they never heard or…

> Also don't underestimate learned helplessness. Learned helplessness is so real. My partner works at a help desk, and I constantly hear stories of older folks just mentally shutting down as soon as she has them open the start menu or a settings menu. I even see it in myself, a super curious neophile software/hardware hacker. Sometimes I'll come across some particularly arcane API docs and it's like my brain just goe…

It's also an ego-threatening thing. Often the older folks or otherwise nontechnical people are socially higher status and being lectured about something that they may not understand sounds dangerous to them or they take it as being challenged by them, especially if the person explaining it is lower social status, younger, "just a kid" etc.

It's easier for them to just refuse to participate and dismiss the topic as irrelevant, than to take up the game and then perhaps be seen as "dumb".

And this state of affairs is actually quite unnatural. The natural course of things over the millennia was that older people are more experienced and can give direction and advice to the young ones. Sure, this is still true in some "soft" topics, but the generational gap in understanding how the modern world works has never been so large.

Re: Massachusetts health notifications app installed without users’ knowledge

#243

Post by riekus »

kuschku wrote: post #44
axismundi wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You get tons of apps installed without consent (including whatever spam your network provider pushes on you). So you are putting this app in the same category as spam, at least that's good. > This app can actually save lives without sacrificing any privacy, pushing it to users is something that has no drawbacks. I have an app that can save your life, trust me. And give me your email so I can send it to you ;)

> I have an app that can save your life, trust me. And give me your email so I can send it to you ;) Great, send me the source code, I’ll get it released on f-droid and then I’ll install the f-droid version of it, just like I’ve got the f-droid and microG version of the Corona Warn App installed :)

So where is the source code for this tracking app?

Re: Massachusetts health notifications app installed without users’ knowledge

#244

Post by riekus »

kuschku wrote: post #120
malka wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>and in fact something I’d have loved to see other countries do as well. Why are you wishing harm on people ?

Why are you? Since when is it justified to preinstall apps for tracking and advertising, but not justified to do this to save lives?

Pre installed (visibly) is a lot different that pushed and hidden installed, you really don't see that difference?

Re: Massachusetts health notifications app installed without users’ knowledge

#245

Post by megous »

owl57 wrote: post #212
megous wrote: post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's even a standard for mobile operators to control the setting in your modem and update/install apps: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OMA_Device_Management I reverse engineered what this does in practice on pinephone modem (Quectel EG25G), for example, and there are pre-compiled binaries there for tmobile and vodafone that process their particular OMA DM flavors, download some configuration and code from internet…

Can one use pinephones to collect these blobs, and then try to run them on Android simulator or whatever for more specific knowledge about operators' practices?

It's quite modem specific. You'll get more information just decompiling them.

Re: Massachusetts health notifications app installed without users’ knowledge

#246

Post by NoImmatureAdHom »

Fellow humans, there are alternatives! Your neck need not be under FAANG's boot! You don't even need to give up any functionality:

CalyxOS: https://calyxos.org/ Privacy-respecting Android distribution that replaces Google spyware with MicroG, so you can have your cake and eat it too. Most everything will work as you're used to, but it does still talk to Google to make that happen.

GrapheneOS: https://grapheneos.org/ Very much like Calyx, but extra-hardened and with no MicroG. No involvement with Google at all.

LineageOS: https://lineageos.org/ The successor to CyanogenMod, will work with many different phones. More privacy and control than stock Android.

There are also many others: Sailfish, Replicant, e

Hardware-wise: CalyxOS and GrapheneOS run best on Pixel 3, 3a, 3XL, 4, 4a, 4XL, 5. The path of least resistance is to get one of these phones and run CalyxOS (if there is an app you need to use that needs Google services like Firebase Cloud Messaging...note that many that can use FCM will run fine without), otherwise run GrapheneOS.

You can also buy a Librem 5 https://puri.sm/products/librem-5/ If privacy and security and hacking are really important to you.

Or a pinephone: https://www.pine64.org/pinephone/

Re: Massachusetts health notifications app installed without users’ knowledge

#247

Post by sp332 »

serial_dev wrote: post #210
arpstick wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

MA resident as well, what worries me more is that someone thought that this method of installation was a good idea and even more worrying is that they were also able to execute on it. It feels rather shady and nefarious the lack of public announcement on it. Shenanigans like this how you get the populace to trust the local government less, which is the last thing this country needs.

I don't see anything bad with people not trusting their local government... Exhibit A

Maybe they shouldn't blindly trust it, but they should be able to hold it accountable.

Re: Massachusetts health notifications app installed without users’ knowledge

#248

Post by abnry »

015UUZn8aEvW wrote: post #159
TomOwens wrote: post #140

Most of the comments on that app as well as here are probably wrong. I'd suspect that everyone who had the app "installed without their permission" opted into the Android COVID-19 Exposure Notification program. This was deployed by Google as part of an update to Google Play Services. When you go to your phone's settings with this update, there's an option to enable COVID-19 Exposure Notifications. When you turn it on…

I'm a MA resident and this app was on my (Android) phone...until a few minutes ago when I read about it on Hacker News, found it, and deleted it. I have no memory of ever opting into the program you describe, and it isn't the type of thing I would normally do. It's possible I guess. In any case, the way they did this is creepy. There was no icon for the app; I had to look in Settings/Apps & Notifications to find it.…

Wow, I thought I was someone who didn't get the app when I checked the icons but once I went into settings, there it was. I even have a NH phone number but live in MA.

Re: Massachusetts health notifications app installed without users’ knowledge

#249

Post by combolo »

TomOwens wrote: post #140

Most of the comments on that app as well as here are probably wrong. I'd suspect that everyone who had the app "installed without their permission" opted into the Android COVID-19 Exposure Notification program. This was deployed by Google as part of an update to Google Play Services. When you go to your phone's settings with this update, there's an option to enable COVID-19 Exposure Notifications. When you turn it on…

I never opted in, the setting for COVID notifications has always been OFF, and I still got the app silently installed on my Android phone.

Re: Massachusetts health notifications app installed without users’ knowledge

#250

Post by combolo »

xlaacid wrote: post #228

update: just checked my wife's phone and there was a notification asking if you want to be part of the exposure notification. Clicked NO and checked the apps- the app was already installed even though I said no. Epic fail for MA gov.

Same here. The app was silently installed on my phone even with the Google Settings for COVID notification still showing it as being turned off.
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