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The inventor of the black box was told to drop the idea

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Re: The inventor of the black box was told to drop the idea

#41

Post by zeusk »

WalterBright wrote: post #39

I've watched all the episodes of Aviation Disasters. The device missing from cockpits is the video recorder. Many investigations revolve around questions like what is the pilot looking at, what the instruments show, even who the heck is in the pilot's seat. Video can confirm switch settings and instrument readouts (the voice recorder is also used to confirm if the warning horns sounded properly). Instead, a lot of ef…

Couple of issues here; the first and foremost - recording people at their workplace. We can all argue how privacy is unreasonable in public but recording let alone pilots but anyone continuously at work will receive big pushback.

Also video occupies much more data than most other streams of information stored on blackbox. This coupled with the fact that anything aviation related takes decades to get into widespread use and it was only quite recently that solid state storage became so dense and ubiquitous.

Video surveillance at airports is getting more widespread, just search for SFO asiana.

Re: The inventor of the black box was told to drop the idea

#42

Post by inigojonesguy »

kken wrote: post #5

This inventor is probably joined by many others before him that had the same idea, were shrugged off and did not have the tenacity to follow up despite that. Another example for what is common wisdom: Execution is everything. The myth of the inventor-founder is something from the industrual age. Interesting how it still persists.

"Execution is everything" is always true after the fact. Good and bad ideas are treated with disdain because that is how people are. Until a random person gets profit from execution, then is praised for the profit, because people desire and envy profit.

If there is a myth here, it is that it matters who executed it first. It's random.

Re: The inventor of the black box was told to drop the idea

#43

Post by martyvis »

Foomf wrote: post #13

I wonder why there was such a difference in responses between the Australians and the British. Was it just a culture difference?

But it was an interesting turnaround by the Aussies that they were the first country to mandate the flight data recorders.

Re: The inventor of the black box was told to drop the idea

#44

Post by WalterBright »

zeusk wrote: post #41
WalterBright wrote: post #39

I've watched all the episodes of Aviation Disasters. The device missing from cockpits is the video recorder. Many investigations revolve around questions like what is the pilot looking at, what the instruments show, even who the heck is in the pilot's seat. Video can confirm switch settings and instrument readouts (the voice recorder is also used to confirm if the warning horns sounded properly). Instead, a lot of ef…

Couple of issues here; the first and foremost - recording people at their workplace. We can all argue how privacy is unreasonable in public but recording let alone pilots but anyone continuously at work will receive big pushback. Also video occupies much more data than most other streams of information stored on blackbox. This coupled with the fact that anything aviation related takes decades to get into widespread u…

It's the same issue with the audio recording. The solution is it's in a loop, and those recordings are almost never released.

As for video, VHS quality is about 1Gb per hour. Meaning you can put 64 hours on an ordinary USB stick about the size of my thumbnail. Furthermore, video recording has nothing to do with flying the airplane, so there are no safety/certification issues. It doesn't even have to be in a crashproof box.

I know that airports now have video surveillance, but those cameras are pointed mostly at the tarmac for security purposes, not at the runways for flight ops.

Re: The inventor of the black box was told to drop the idea

#45

Post by WalterBright »

WalterBright wrote: post #44
zeusk wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Couple of issues here; the first and foremost - recording people at their workplace. We can all argue how privacy is unreasonable in public but recording let alone pilots but anyone continuously at work will receive big pushback. Also video occupies much more data than most other streams of information stored on blackbox. This coupled with the fact that anything aviation related takes decades to get into widespread u…

It's the same issue with the audio recording. The solution is it's in a loop, and those recordings are almost never released. As for video, VHS quality is about 1Gb per hour. Meaning you can put 64 hours on an ordinary USB stick about the size of my thumbnail. Furthermore, video recording has nothing to do with flying the airplane, so there are no safety/certification issues. It doesn't even have to be in a crashproo…

BTW, I can buy a dashcam for $100 that records HD in a loop and plugs into a cigarette lighter. I'm not buying there's any technical or cost issue with installing one in the cockpit. I will buy that the problems are all bureaucratic in nature.

Just make a secure bracket for it, and a 12V feed.

Re: The inventor of the black box was told to drop the idea

#46

Post by the-dude »

WalterBright wrote: post #39

I've watched all the episodes of Aviation Disasters. The device missing from cockpits is the video recorder. Many investigations revolve around questions like what is the pilot looking at, what the instruments show, even who the heck is in the pilot's seat. Video can confirm switch settings and instrument readouts (the voice recorder is also used to confirm if the warning horns sounded properly). Instead, a lot of ef…

Although I don't necessarily disagree with your arguments, using security cameras on the tower would probably give you very little : the distances are huge.

Imagine the footage of the average shop robbery, which most of the time is already useless. And UFOs.

Re: The inventor of the black box was told to drop the idea

#47

Post by the-dude »

kwdc wrote: post #6

Wow. History hasn't been kind. As is often the case around limited-mindset thinking. From TFA: "civil authorities said that “Dr Warren’s instrument has little immediate direct use in civil aircraft.” The Royal Australian Air Force likewise decided that “such a device is not required—the recorder would yield more expletives than explanations.” Well. No. Multiple air crashes across the world relied on recordings as a k…

What about a black box for your car?

Re: The inventor of the black box was told to drop the idea

#48

Post by WalterBright »

the-dude wrote: post #46
WalterBright wrote: post #39

I've watched all the episodes of Aviation Disasters. The device missing from cockpits is the video recorder. Many investigations revolve around questions like what is the pilot looking at, what the instruments show, even who the heck is in the pilot's seat. Video can confirm switch settings and instrument readouts (the voice recorder is also used to confirm if the warning horns sounded properly). Instead, a lot of ef…

Although I don't necessarily disagree with your arguments, using security cameras on the tower would probably give you very little : the distances are huge. Imagine the footage of the average shop robbery, which most of the time is already useless. And UFOs.

It'll tell you the positions, directions, and speeds of the traffic on the runways, which are a big deal.

Re: The inventor of the black box was told to drop the idea

#49

Post by bregma »

zeusk wrote: post #41
WalterBright wrote: post #39

I've watched all the episodes of Aviation Disasters. The device missing from cockpits is the video recorder. Many investigations revolve around questions like what is the pilot looking at, what the instruments show, even who the heck is in the pilot's seat. Video can confirm switch settings and instrument readouts (the voice recorder is also used to confirm if the warning horns sounded properly). Instead, a lot of ef…

Couple of issues here; the first and foremost - recording people at their workplace. We can all argue how privacy is unreasonable in public but recording let alone pilots but anyone continuously at work will receive big pushback. Also video occupies much more data than most other streams of information stored on blackbox. This coupled with the fact that anything aviation related takes decades to get into widespread u…

"If the people in the cockpit aren't doing anything wrong, they have nothing to worry about".

Re: The inventor of the black box was told to drop the idea

#50

Post by the-dude »

WalterBright wrote: post #48
the-dude wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Although I don't necessarily disagree with your arguments, using security cameras on the tower would probably give you very little : the distances are huge. Imagine the footage of the average shop robbery, which most of the time is already useless. And UFOs.

It'll tell you the positions, directions, and speeds of the traffic on the runways, which are a big deal.

Don't they have ground radar for this?
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