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Massachusetts health notifications app installed without users’ knowledge

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Re: Massachusetts health notifications app installed without users’ knowledge

#161
post #54

How is this different from any update program, like windows update or Ubuntu update, installing software/upgrades whenever you get updates?

the difference is that there is a fundamentally different power dynamic, you can just not do business with microsoft, you can't do that with the government.

Re: Massachusetts health notifications app installed without users’ knowledge

#162
post #89

FYI: Google can remotely install/delete/alter any app on your phone without your notice if you have GAPPS installed, and they removed the option to disable it back in 2.* days. This is very rampant in India. Operators keep pushing crapware like Linkedin app, clash of kings, etc for money from app vendors.

It honestly baffles me that there are Android enthusiasts. My phone runs Android but it's not a good operating system.

I think it baffles me that there is enthusiasts that will defend either side as an absolute. I mean I get it, people tend to fall into tribal thinking. But sometime you have to take a step back and remember that these are just gadgets.

Personally, I run Android. It is an OS. It is ok. Not great not bad. I don't really care what other people run, I just hope it doesn't treat them to poorly.

Re: Massachusetts health notifications app installed without users’ knowledge

#163

Most of the comments on that app as well as here are probably wrong. I'd suspect that everyone who had the app "installed without their permission" opted into the Android COVID-19 Exposure Notification program. This was deployed by Google as part of an update to Google Play Services. When you go to your phone's settings with this update, there's an option to enable COVID-19 Exposure Notifications. When you turn it on…

I just went through the Exposure Notifications flow on Android, and selected a region where it's not currently available (Arkansas). It displayed a message saying it wasn't supported in my region, and left the setting disabled. While it's still possible that your theory is correct, I certainly don't think it's the intended flow as of now.

Re: Massachusetts health notifications app installed without users’ knowledge

#164

Is it possible to remove Google's remote administrator access on Android devices?

It's part of the Play Store. You'd need to install a non-Google build of Android (e.g. LineageOS) which doesn't include Play Store/Services, which also means you can't download apps etc from there.

Re: Massachusetts health notifications app installed without users’ knowledge

#166

It is obvious that we need better legislation to deal with all the new possibilities that technologies have opened. The installation of this app, even done with good intent, open a lot of questions on what should be possible or not to be done by government and corporations. When you get a device with pre-installed, uninstallable, or auto-installed apps. What are the rules? > "By enabling this service, you can be quic…

> It is obvious that we need better legislation to deal with all the new possibilities that technologies have opened. How about applying common sense?

The difficulty of taking a government-sponsored and government-accessible substantial privacy risk (at a minimum) is something that some will find utterly unacceptable and others will think might be concerning or unacceptable in general but is righteously justified in this specific situation.

The first group’s common sense says “don’t install”; the second group’s common sense says “install via subterfuge if necessary”.

Re: Massachusetts health notifications app installed without users’ knowledge

#167

a government installing a software without notice or consent onto their population's devices is not something a healthy functioning democracy does, it's what a psychotic paranoid despot does. if the Mass Gov truly wants to minimize harm this is the opposite of what needs to be done. all this will do is drive conspiracy theories and deepen a very legitimate mistrust in the institutions that plague the USA (which helpe…

>"if the Mass Gov truly wants to minimize harm this is the opposite of what needs to be done."

where is the actual evidence for this? Both Taiwan and South Korea deployed massive, digital tracking efforts to respond to covid often at the cell-provider/ infrastructure level so the entire population was covered whether they wanted to or not.

Nothing about this was despotic or paranoid, it was simply the correct, swift, and strong response to the situation at hand. Until half of Americans have voluntarily installed a tracing app on their phone, if they even know how to do it, we're five years into the pandemic.

Defaults matter. There's a nice example from organ donations in a study conducted by Johnson & Goldstein[1]. When you ask people to opt-in, even if you send everyone a letter personally, only 30% do. When you switch to opt-out, 90% stay in without any resources expended. I would like to think the first obligation of a healthy democracy is to the health of her people. What gives rise to despots is governments failing exactly at that, providng essential functions, being harmstrung by excessive checks and mistrust.

[1]http://www.dangoldstein.com/papers/DefaultsScience.pdf

Re: Massachusetts health notifications app installed without users’ knowledge

#168
post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

... you trust Google ?

Everyone trusts Google, whether they like it or not. This is the definition of trust that security operations use: A trusts B if B is capable of doing something nasty to A. Google has a heck-load of money. They could pay a disreputable aggregate company to deliver a load of tonne-bags of gravel to my front garden, blocking my car in, and generally destroying the landscaping. I trust them not to do this, and the reaso…

That is a pedantic and useless definition of trust.

Re: Massachusetts health notifications app installed without users’ knowledge

#169

I wonder if this is the same functionality some carriers use to install their management app on your phone. For example, I've recently bought a second hand Samsung tablet. I've reset it to factory settings and put in a Vodafone SIM. The next time I looked though the installed apps I saw some Vodafone Services app that I didn't install. It couldn't be removed either. So clearly, either Google with play services or the…

> The next time I looked though the installed apps I saw some Vodafone Services app that I didn't install. It couldn't be removed either

Are you sure that's an actual Android App and not just the SIM Application Toolkit[0]? On iOS these show up under the Carrier menu in Settings but on Android it shows them as if they were an app, even though it's something running on your SIM card (they are backwards compatible and show up way back on old feature phones).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SIM_Application_Toolkit

Re: Massachusetts health notifications app installed without users’ knowledge

#170
post #89

FYI: Google can remotely install/delete/alter any app on your phone without your notice if you have GAPPS installed, and they removed the option to disable it back in 2.* days. This is very rampant in India. Operators keep pushing crapware like Linkedin app, clash of kings, etc for money from app vendors.

It honestly baffles me that there are Android enthusiasts. My phone runs Android but it's not a good operating system.

Don't buy a shitty phone and expect to get a good experience. Avoiding big brands like Samsung usually helps.
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