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Starlink dishes go into “thermal shutdown” once they hit 122° Fahrenheit

arstechnica.com

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Re: Starlink dishes go into “thermal shutdown” once they hit 122° Fahrenheit

#421

Post by _Microft »

shaklee3 wrote: post #374
drusepth wrote: post #315

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On the other hand, products do frequently shut down in "average" temperatures, especially in the context of internet dishes. The rural communities most likely to use Starlink are also those most likely to be relying on satellite dishes right now, which seem to frequently suffer from similar problems. My parents pay for internet from both HughesNet and AT&T because the former stops working whenever it snows more than…

No. I said this earlier, but they won a rural auction from the FCC where they were given 900 million dollars for Starlink, which includes providing coverage in areas well above 100 degrees f on a regular basis. They are required to provide this. If they hadn't won the auction, they can do whatever they want. The auction had service level agreements that could not be met with this limitation. It's a fundamental flaw t…

Do you know when they need to have started providing service there at the latest?

They began providing service at higher latitude earlier because that is where the satellites "lump" due to their inclination, so that they needed fewer satellites in total.

They are also required to cover Alaska and have now started launching Starlink satellites into (near-)polar orbits. If these are test sats or actually operational I do not know but they seem to be working on these issues.

All in all they seem to be following a launch-early strategy.

Re: Starlink dishes go into “thermal shutdown” once they hit 122° Fahrenheit

#422

Post by unfunco »

admax88q wrote: post #404
awesomeusername wrote: post #375

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Preemptive thermal shutdown at this temp doesn't mean the units aren't designed to handle much higher. It means at this stage in the beta program they aren't ready to push the envelope with customer deployed hardware. I always back off from the maximum limits for the gear I design then after years in the field and proven reliability you can remotely update it and push things a bit. And that's in production. This is b…

This shouldn't even be considered "pushing the envelope" it's not that hot.

Not that hot? It's 122°, 134° is the highest ever recorded on Earth, it's pretty hot.

Re: Starlink dishes go into “thermal shutdown” once they hit 122° Fahrenheit

#423

Post by rini17 »

awesomeusername wrote: post #375
shaklee3 wrote: post #366

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Speaking from experience in this same industry, this is the wrong way to look at it. They significant amount of engineering goes in to designing the ground systems such that it can tolerate all different types of environments. Currently with Starlink you are only seeing probably less than 5% of the environments that it would be rolled out in. This is mainly due to how they are targeting RDOF areas to appease the gove…

Preemptive thermal shutdown at this temp doesn't mean the units aren't designed to handle much higher. It means at this stage in the beta program they aren't ready to push the envelope with customer deployed hardware. I always back off from the maximum limits for the gear I design then after years in the field and proven reliability you can remotely update it and push things a bit. And that's in production. This is b…

The dishes reportedly use around 100W. To safely dissipate such a power at higher temps, the design would need visible features (such as active cooling). Can't be done by just pushing software update.

Re: Starlink dishes go into “thermal shutdown” once they hit 122° Fahrenheit

#424

Post by numpad0 »

awesomeusername wrote: post #375
shaklee3 wrote: post #366

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Speaking from experience in this same industry, this is the wrong way to look at it. They significant amount of engineering goes in to designing the ground systems such that it can tolerate all different types of environments. Currently with Starlink you are only seeing probably less than 5% of the environments that it would be rolled out in. This is mainly due to how they are targeting RDOF areas to appease the gove…

Preemptive thermal shutdown at this temp doesn't mean the units aren't designed to handle much higher. It means at this stage in the beta program they aren't ready to push the envelope with customer deployed hardware. I always back off from the maximum limits for the gear I design then after years in the field and proven reliability you can remotely update it and push things a bit. And that's in production. This is b…

122F = 50C

Means the antenna is not even outdoor rated

Re: Starlink dishes go into “thermal shutdown” once they hit 122° Fahrenheit

#425

Post by bellyfullofbac »

unfunco wrote: post #422
admax88q wrote: post #404

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This shouldn't even be considered "pushing the envelope" it's not that hot.

Not that hot? It's 122°, 134° is the highest ever recorded on Earth, it's pretty hot.

122F air temperature or 122F device temperature? Intel CPUs shut themselves down at 212F.

Re: Starlink dishes go into “thermal shutdown” once they hit 122° Fahrenheit

#426

Post by nine_k »

rpmisms wrote: post #378
nine_k wrote: post #334

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wish more of the SpaceX culture bled into Tesla then.

Move faster, break more things? Tesla delivers far more refined products than SpaceX

Yes, break more things on testing grounds. Keep iterating until the thing works well.

SpaceX, paradoxically, has easier time experimenting and partially failing, because they mostly haul machines. Every Tesla car, OTOH, has a human pilot.

Re: Starlink dishes go into “thermal shutdown” once they hit 122° Fahrenheit

#427

Post by HWR_14 »

pbreit wrote: post #103
andrewmcwatters wrote: post #6

I’m always surprised how poor engineering gets exposed in products I purchase being an Arizona resident. No, failing at 122F is not acceptable. If your hardware is exposed to outside conditions, it should operate easily below 32F, and well above 140F. Considering that phones can operate below 0F and near 122F, that’s embarrassingly bad. Same thing in vehicles. If you’re driving consistently at interstate speeds, you…

It's a v1 beta. Maybe put it in the shade.

I'm pretty sure shielding a satellite dish from the sky makes it inoperable.

Re: Starlink dishes go into “thermal shutdown” once they hit 122° Fahrenheit

#428

Post by rualca »

blhack wrote: post #154

Starlink is in beta. The entire purpose of the beta is to find stuff like this. They found something, and I'm sure that the next iteration of this before it goes to mass market will account for it. You're just seeing the system work.

> The entire purpose of the beta is to find stuff like this.

No, it really isn't.

The point of a test is to verify that the system works as designed, and in case it doesn't then there's planned room to iterate out unexpected issues.

If a system designed to be operated on the outdoors is not designed to operate with temperatures above 50C then this is a collosal screwups and gross oversight, as this sort of stuff is well-known for decades.

https://web.mit.edu/parmstr/Public/NRCan/CanBldgDigests/cbd0...

Re: Starlink dishes go into “thermal shutdown” once they hit 122° Fahrenheit

#429

Post by cowl »

ummonk wrote: post #344
zaroth wrote: post #231

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The put a non-automotive grade LCD in the original Model S because it was that LCD or nothing. The automotive screens didn’t exist in the size they needed and they weren’t at a stage in their company where they could design their own. They took a risk to achieve the product vision that they were determined to bring into the world given the technical constraints of the age. I’d say overall it paid off. IMO it wasn’t a…

They didn’t need that size, they could have gotten by fine with a smaller size just like every other car company.

And they could have "gotten by" with a diesel engine just like every other car company. that's a useless comment to make. We are tired with getting by. we need companies like Tesla/SpaceX that are willing to push the envelope with simingly stupid and useless ideas. After some time people will wander how past generations have gotten by without what they have just like now most of us can't go by without access to smart phones whereas 15 years ago everyone just went by fine.

Re: Starlink dishes go into “thermal shutdown” once they hit 122° Fahrenheit

#430

Post by rualca »

alisonkisk wrote: post #262
da_chicken wrote: post #253

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree, it wasn't arrogance. Deliberately going forward with something in spite of knowing for certain that it's not fit for purpose is called engineering malfeasance, not arrogance.

Making practical tradeoffs to get what's important is engineering reality.

> Making practical tradeoffs to get what's important is engineering reality.

Not being aware that objects placed outdoors and exposed directly to sunlight easily reach temperatures above 80C is either a collosal design error or sheer incompetence.

Let's put it this way: for anyone to draw the line at 50C they needed to do at least a review of environmental constraints and operational ceilings, and the most rudimentary of cursory reviews (i.e., googling and looking at the first search hits) is enough to show that white objects placed outdoors at direct sunlight easily get to 80C.

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