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Rapid DHCP: Or, how do Macs get on the network so fast?

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21–30 of 191 posts

Re: Rapid DHCP: Or, how do Macs get on the network so fast?

#21
I do not appreciate when my Mac just guesses a network setup and lies about being online instead of just waiting to see what is really there.

It not fun to delete or rename a wifi network while debugging connectivity issues, only to have m Mac lie and say it is still connected to the network that no longer exists.

Re: Rapid DHCP: Or, how do Macs get on the network so fast?

#22

This implementation by the Mac feels wrong. I mean it appears to work, but it seems like a violation of the protocol and can result in problems on the network. Maybe security issues (?). I'm not an expert in any of these things, but I'd love to hear a network protocol/security experts take on this.

Not security. You usually rely upon security for network layers 1-4 as being actual security. Adding additional controls can be useful in slowing down would-be attackers, or "casual" intruders, but they are not "real" security measures.

Re: Rapid DHCP: Or, how do Macs get on the network so fast?

#23

This implementation by the Mac feels wrong. I mean it appears to work, but it seems like a violation of the protocol and can result in problems on the network. Maybe security issues (?). I'm not an expert in any of these things, but I'd love to hear a network protocol/security experts take on this.

[deleted]

Re: Rapid DHCP: Or, how do Macs get on the network so fast?

#24
post #9

This is a great example of Apple's detail-oriented focus on real-world user experience, and helps explain why people prefer Macs even if they can't always explain why. Lots of little things just work better. You (where "you" == myself and many others, even if not /you/ personally) are left overall with an experience of less frustration.

Well, in that case they might not be following the protocol. And in some cases break the connectivity for others...

Re: Rapid DHCP: Or, how do Macs get on the network so fast?

#25
post #19

Interesting on the perspectives here. My macbook is faster at reconnecting than my linux laptop was, but it's still a few seconds. When I'm opening the lid, I typically still need to wait 2-4 seconds before the network is usable, sometimes it's a bit more. In comparison, it's still faster, but not 'instantaneous' as some people seem to suggest. Neither of my macbooks have been "instant" (but again, certainly faster t…

Huh, interesting. I have my Mac set up to require a password coming out of sleep. 90% of the time, by the time I've typed my password and hit enter, not only am I reconnected to my wifi network, but even Adium has had time to reconnect me to GTalk and finish fetching online contacts. It's amazing. When I'm in Linux I can't do anything with the network for a good 15 seconds after unlocking my screen.

I don't usually have a password requirement, so I have that much longer to notice it. But even when I did have a setup like yours, it doesn't take me that long to type brandy6 and hit enter. I'd still ending noticing a wait.

Re: Rapid DHCP: Or, how do Macs get on the network so fast?

#26
post #15

> This network recognition technique allows the Mac to very rapidly discover if it is connected to a known network. If the network is recognized (and presumably if the Mac knows that the DHCP lease is still active), it immediately and presumptuously configures its IP interface with the address it knows is good for this network. Ok, seriously? That isn't a bug in an implementation somewhere, but in fact a feature that…

I've experienced a few cases where I've joined somebody elses network with my Macbook and it's stolen an IP address that someone else was using.

Re: Rapid DHCP: Or, how do Macs get on the network so fast?

#27
post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[deleted]

I am not a networking expert, and I haven't looked into this in any greater detail than what was in the article. However, it is possible that the Mac doesn't wait long enough to see if an address is already in use before using it. As such, it may end up essentially being an ARP cache poisoning attack. How this works out in the end may depend on the DHCP server in use. Perhaps the server may discover the broken ARP re…

On some access points you can disable client to client traffic as a security precaution. If such traffic was disabled, it would probably break the ARP request to see if someone is currently using the IP. (@ 00.0180 seconds in the original article)

Re: Rapid DHCP: Or, how do Macs get on the network so fast?

#28
post #15

> This network recognition technique allows the Mac to very rapidly discover if it is connected to a known network. If the network is recognized (and presumably if the Mac knows that the DHCP lease is still active), it immediately and presumptuously configures its IP interface with the address it knows is good for this network. Ok, seriously? That isn't a bug in an implementation somewhere, but in fact a feature that…

If your DHCP server is handing out leased addresses to other clients you might have bigger problems to worry about. For example if you expect a lot of churn on the network you should be using much shorter leases times.

Re: Rapid DHCP: Or, how do Macs get on the network so fast?

#29
post #28
post #15

> This network recognition technique allows the Mac to very rapidly discover if it is connected to a known network. If the network is recognized (and presumably if the Mac knows that the DHCP lease is still active), it immediately and presumptuously configures its IP interface with the address it knows is good for this network. Ok, seriously? That isn't a bug in an implementation somewhere, but in fact a feature that…

If your DHCP server is handing out leased addresses to other clients you might have bigger problems to worry about. For example if you expect a lot of churn on the network you should be using much shorter leases times.

Correct, but Coffee House X, Y, and Z don't realize this. Which makes it the computer-owner's problem too.

Re: Rapid DHCP: Or, how do Macs get on the network so fast?

#30
Interesting. I have Arch Linux running on a Asus Eee pc and I was always happy that it was connected and ready to go as soon as I woke it up from sleep (including WiFi). I can access the internet within a second of waking it up. I'm using NetworkManager and I wonder if it isn't doing something similar? But then everyone else on Linux is claiming it takes much longer.
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