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Starlink dishes go into “thermal shutdown” once they hit 122° Fahrenheit

arstechnica.com

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Re: Starlink dishes go into “thermal shutdown” once they hit 122° Fahrenheit

#311

Post by meimo »

zamadatix wrote: post #305
duskwuff wrote: post #301

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And, fwiw, that's exactly what SpaceX did to make Dishy tolerant of low temperatures (and to help it clear snow/ice from the dish). There's just no equivalent solution for high temperatures.

I used to think it was just a matter of product cost to do active cooling... really the problem isn't the temperature it's the dew point! Which I guess could probably be solved with enough hardware, planning, and cost as well... but a ridiculous amount compared to adding an electric heater for the opposite problem. Come to think of it does anyone know of a consumer device that utilized active cooling (as in would get…

a fridge

Re: Starlink dishes go into “thermal shutdown” once they hit 122° Fahrenheit

#312

Post by slipframe »

dathinab wrote: post #288
blhack wrote: post #154

Starlink is in beta. The entire purpose of the beta is to find stuff like this. They found something, and I'm sure that the next iteration of this before it goes to mass market will account for it. You're just seeing the system work.

122° Fahrenheit is not "just" hot, a lot of things will have problems operating normally at that degree of heat. Like in the area where I life a satellite dish reaching 50°C would be the rear exception. And if the alternative is not having proper internet at all other days, Startlink would still be the better option, even if there are a very few days where it fails during the afternoon of the day.

Eh, while 122F would probably be a rare temperature in most areas, judged by weather reporting, I think if you consider hyper-local effects it might not be too rare. If a dish were positioned over or near tarmac, it would experience weather several degrees hotter than the weather channel was reporting for that area. You'd also want to avoid placing it near the radiators of air conditioning systems, and other things like that.

Just something to keep in mind during installation I suppose, not insurmountable problems by any means.

Re: Starlink dishes go into “thermal shutdown” once they hit 122° Fahrenheit

#313

Post by noizejoy »

goodcanadian wrote: post #113
andrewmcwatters wrote: post #6

I’m always surprised how poor engineering gets exposed in products I purchase being an Arizona resident. No, failing at 122F is not acceptable. If your hardware is exposed to outside conditions, it should operate easily below 32F, and well above 140F. Considering that phones can operate below 0F and near 122F, that’s embarrassingly bad. Same thing in vehicles. If you’re driving consistently at interstate speeds, you…

As a Canadian, 32F seems like an oddly high lower limit to me. Things should operate down to at least -40.

Side note: “40 below” is approximately where C and F intersect.

As a result, that temperature being “effing cold” is something US Americans and Canadians readily agree on.

Re: Starlink dishes go into “thermal shutdown” once they hit 122° Fahrenheit

#314

Post by froh »

washadjeffmad wrote: post #267
aaomidi wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If your engineering team had to wait for a product failure to realize an item that's going to be outdoors in the sun is going to get hot, what on earth else are they missing?

I mean, the units didn't fail randomly, they shutdown. They're beta, so it could be that the thermistor was placed poorly in a redesign, that they intended 122°C instead of °F, that they shipped with a dummy value used in an older fw during testing, etc. All in all, a little embarrassing but not that significant, assuming this is certifiably not a scam.

I dont get the °C vs F one? with 122C youre covered for 122F. 122C = 251.6F and 122F = 50C

Re: Starlink dishes go into “thermal shutdown” once they hit 122° Fahrenheit

#315

Post by drusepth »

falcolas wrote: post #274
throwaway69123 wrote: post #234

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hard to call this a flaw no product ever invented isn’t without limitations

However, products are frequently created to not shut down in “average” summer temperatures. It’s a well known operating parameter throughout the US - temperatures break 105°F even up in Canada. It’s not even the hottest part of the summer yet. I can’t imagine this problem getting better.

On the other hand, products do frequently shut down in "average" temperatures, especially in the context of internet dishes.

The rural communities most likely to use Starlink are also those most likely to be relying on satellite dishes right now, which seem to frequently suffer from similar problems.

My parents pay for internet from both HughesNet and AT&T because the former stops working whenever it snows more than an inch or two (even after clearing the dish manually) and the latter constantly drops any time there's thick rain, heavy winds, etc. There's dozens of days throughout each year where neither work and they're just SOL in terms of TV or internet.

Re: Starlink dishes go into “thermal shutdown” once they hit 122° Fahrenheit

#316

Post by only_as_i_fall »

aaomidi wrote: post #176
blhack wrote: post #154

Starlink is in beta. The entire purpose of the beta is to find stuff like this. They found something, and I'm sure that the next iteration of this before it goes to mass market will account for it. You're just seeing the system work.

If your engineering team had to wait for a product failure to realize an item that's going to be outdoors in the sun is going to get hot, what on earth else are they missing?

According to the article the dish literally reported to the user that it had overheated, and then it worked once it had cooled down.

Maybe not the greatest behavior, but clearly they already accounted for this.

Re: Starlink dishes go into “thermal shutdown” once they hit 122° Fahrenheit

#317

Post by ClumsyPilot »

jrockway wrote: post #206
aaomidi wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If your engineering team had to wait for a product failure to realize an item that's going to be outdoors in the sun is going to get hot, what on earth else are they missing?

I doubt that everyone on the team missed the fact that electronics get hot outdoors in the summer. Rather, they probably chose to launch a product that breaks when it gets hot, because it's an easy problem to fix later. Now that something is out in the field, they can debug their network, satellites, RF hardware, installation instructions, management applications, and figure out what kind of customers want to buy thi…

" Would it be worth blocking all those projects another 3 months just so that some guy in Arizona gets more Internet uptime on the hottest day of the year?"

Umm, yes?

Re: Starlink dishes go into “thermal shutdown” once they hit 122° Fahrenheit

#318

Post by mrandish »

iamhamm wrote: post #221
wumpus wrote: post #135

Several posters on r/Starlink report that they had seen their dishes at more than 122F, when this topic came up a few days ago. It's entirely possible that this story (and 122 hn comments so far) is about a dish with a loose heatsink, and not a product that always shuts down at 122F.

I have Starlink and I'm in Pahrump, NV. We hit 111F today and my dishy is in direct sunlight on the ground so it was easily over 120F. Hell, my direct sunlight thermometer showed over 130F! Didn't go into thermal shutdown, no disruptions in service, and I didn't have to water it either.

Very valuable comment. If this isn't all, or even most, of the beta units then it may indeed be a loose heat sink or variance in manufacturing tolerance. This can be far more easily (and cheaply) addressed than a population wide issue.

It may also be the case that the thermal limit is currently set more conservatively than it needs to be. When every hardware unit is rare, costly and yet vital to gathering beta data, the choice to go extra conservative on thermal limits to prevent damage to scarce hardware deployed in the field seems logical.

Re: Starlink dishes go into “thermal shutdown” once they hit 122° Fahrenheit

#319

Post by noizejoy »

krapht wrote: post #225
goodcanadian wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As a Canadian, 32F seems like an oddly high lower limit to me. Things should operate down to at least -40.

Right. Snow tires, 4WD, and engine block heaters should be standard equipment on cars because obviously things should be designed to handle every environment they might reasonably encounter. /s

Block heaters are pretty standard on many new cars sold in the colder parts of Canada. So are all season tires.

Re: Starlink dishes go into “thermal shutdown” once they hit 122° Fahrenheit

#320

Post by alksjdalkj »

dathinab wrote: post #288
blhack wrote: post #154

Starlink is in beta. The entire purpose of the beta is to find stuff like this. They found something, and I'm sure that the next iteration of this before it goes to mass market will account for it. You're just seeing the system work.

122° Fahrenheit is not "just" hot, a lot of things will have problems operating normally at that degree of heat. Like in the area where I life a satellite dish reaching 50°C would be the rear exception. And if the alternative is not having proper internet at all other days, Startlink would still be the better option, even if there are a very few days where it fails during the afternoon of the day.

I'm not sure, it seems like 110+F is pretty common nowadays in parts of the US. Adding a dozen degrees if the dish is in direct sunlight seems pretty realistic.

(not saying things won't break at that heat, just that it's not unrealistically high)

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