Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Starlink dishes go into “thermal shutdown” once they hit 122° Fahrenheit

arstechnica.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

281–290 of 516 posts

Re: Starlink dishes go into “thermal shutdown” once they hit 122° Fahrenheit

#281

Post by path411 »

kortex wrote: post #273

Hey, remember that time the entire power grid in Texas was crippled due to things going out of temperature range spec? Only in that case, it wasn't a beta product, it was critical infrastructure, that they were warned about and had ample opportunity to fix. Getting components rated outside of "normal operating conditions" is a PITA on a good day, and impossible otherwise. You straight up don't design for every possib…

Yeah but this isn't a 9. If it's really that low temp spec, it's gotta be kicking off most days for this and next month in AZ

Re: Starlink dishes go into “thermal shutdown” once they hit 122° Fahrenheit

#282

Post by da_chicken »

alisonkisk wrote: post #262
da_chicken wrote: post #253

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree, it wasn't arrogance. Deliberately going forward with something in spite of knowing for certain that it's not fit for purpose is called engineering malfeasance, not arrogance.

Making practical tradeoffs to get what's important is engineering reality.

"The ends justify the means," is an epitaph on countless headstones.

Edit: Here's some food for thought. Tesla was basically forced to admit the display issue because it was so pervasive, and they basically got lucky that their display didn't cause other problems or bigger problems.

Just how lucky was Tesla? We know they're willing to take a gamble. Where else did they cut corners or skimp that we just never found out about? What else might have gone wrong? Automobiles are one of the most dangerous machines on the planet. We've also heard horror stories from former employees about working conditions, too.

People are Tesla fans because they're excited by the image. By electric cars. By the idea. But they're letting their desire to have that image in their head untarnished means they're not going to be willing to accept genuine criticism of genuine failings. Just like Apple, and Linux, and so many other products, it's generated fans who live up to fanaticism.

Re: Starlink dishes go into “thermal shutdown” once they hit 122° Fahrenheit

#283

Post by devit »

kortex wrote: post #260
jrockway wrote: post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I doubt that everyone on the team missed the fact that electronics get hot outdoors in the summer. Rather, they probably chose to launch a product that breaks when it gets hot, because it's an easy problem to fix later. Now that something is out in the field, they can debug their network, satellites, RF hardware, installation instructions, management applications, and figure out what kind of customers want to buy thi…

This is exactly the whole "agile" vs traditional/waterfall mentality, scooters before motorcars, etc., put into practice. Hardware is hard . > It's also completely possible that the parts simply aren't available Fun fact: they don't make (commercially available) GPUs, NICs, pretty much any PC components rated below 0°F. If you need to design a system which needs to sit in an aircraft in Deadhorse, Alaska, you either…

You could also add a heater.

Re: Starlink dishes go into “thermal shutdown” once they hit 122° Fahrenheit

#284

Post by kortex »

da_chicken wrote: post #253
zaroth wrote: post #231

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The put a non-automotive grade LCD in the original Model S because it was that LCD or nothing. The automotive screens didn’t exist in the size they needed and they weren’t at a stage in their company where they could design their own. They took a risk to achieve the product vision that they were determined to bring into the world given the technical constraints of the age. I’d say overall it paid off. IMO it wasn’t a…

I agree, it wasn't arrogance. Deliberately going forward with something in spite of knowing for certain that it's not fit for purpose is called engineering malfeasance, not arrogance.

It's a heckin' internet uplink dish, not a mission-critical piece of engineering lives depend on (if Starlink is your only way to call emergency services, you ought to have a radio backup).

Re: Starlink dishes go into “thermal shutdown” once they hit 122° Fahrenheit

#285

Post by 8note »

bliteben wrote: post #137
bart_spoon wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I actually believe that the opposite is true. It takes much more energy to cool off a home with AC than it does to heat a home in cold weather.

I think you are confusing the efficiency of heating sources vs the inefficiency of A/C. However A/C just moves heat, it doesn't have to create it. This is why in climates in which they are appropriate heat pumps can be even more efficient than other forms of heating. I will say there likely isn't a ton of good hard data on this for another reason, and that is that humidity plays a role, both in what temperatures are…

Huh? That hard data was half of my undergrad courses in mech

Re: Starlink dishes go into “thermal shutdown” once they hit 122° Fahrenheit

#286

Post by confused_corbin »

blhack wrote: post #154

Starlink is in beta. The entire purpose of the beta is to find stuff like this. They found something, and I'm sure that the next iteration of this before it goes to mass market will account for it. You're just seeing the system work.

If you ever work on hardware, please talk to people who actually know what they are doing.

Anyone with a six week internship worth of experience would have tested this in an environment chamber.

It’s bad enough when idiot “first principals” MEs and EEs toss this stuff over and I have to deal with it, but it doesn’t fucking reach customers with faults that bad.

Re: Starlink dishes go into “thermal shutdown” once they hit 122° Fahrenheit

#287

Post by kortex »

ganoushoreilly wrote: post #179
babesh wrote: post #173

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The link is mostly a honeypot for Elon Musk haters. I wonder if they have bothered looking at the operating temperatures of other satellite Internet dishes? A simple search will net you heating and cooling devices for satellite dishes. If you face more extreme temperatures, you need only go buy a heating and cooling unit. http://www.dishcamo.com/dish_heater.htm

Surprisingly, the heating element built in appears to be pretty solid, or at least that's been the responses on /r/starlink. You're definitely right that people are hating on it. Most of the people I know in real life that knocked it have access to land based internet. Once you get out into rural areas where 4g is the basis for your internet, it's amazing.

Many of these folks are used to internet going out because the wind is blowing too hard, or it's raining, or snowing, or a cow is stepping on the fiber link.

https://www.datacenterdynamics.com/en/news/how-cows-caused-s...

Re: Starlink dishes go into “thermal shutdown” once they hit 122° Fahrenheit

#288

Post by dathinab »

blhack wrote: post #154

Starlink is in beta. The entire purpose of the beta is to find stuff like this. They found something, and I'm sure that the next iteration of this before it goes to mass market will account for it. You're just seeing the system work.

122° Fahrenheit is not "just" hot, a lot of things will have problems operating normally at that degree of heat.

Like in the area where I life a satellite dish reaching 50°C would be the rear exception. And if the alternative is not having proper internet at all other days, Startlink would still be the better option, even if there are a very few days where it fails during the afternoon of the day.

Re: Starlink dishes go into “thermal shutdown” once they hit 122° Fahrenheit

#289

Post by kortex »

path411 wrote: post #281
kortex wrote: post #273

Hey, remember that time the entire power grid in Texas was crippled due to things going out of temperature range spec? Only in that case, it wasn't a beta product, it was critical infrastructure, that they were warned about and had ample opportunity to fix. Getting components rated outside of "normal operating conditions" is a PITA on a good day, and impossible otherwise. You straight up don't design for every possib…

Yeah but this isn't a 9. If it's really that low temp spec, it's gotta be kicking off most days for this and next month in AZ

What percent of customers don't experience thermal throttling in june? 90-99%? That's 1-2 nines.

E: another comment mentions some cities in AZ are the hottest places in the world right now.

Re: Starlink dishes go into “thermal shutdown” once they hit 122° Fahrenheit

#290

Post by tptacek »

throwaway69123 wrote: post #234
tptacek wrote: post #220

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes? If you advertise a flaw, it remains a flaw.

Hard to call this a flaw no product ever invented isn’t without limitations

I think you're operating from a broken definition of the word "flaw".
Post reply on HN