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Starlink dishes go into “thermal shutdown” once they hit 122° Fahrenheit

arstechnica.com

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Re: Starlink dishes go into “thermal shutdown” once they hit 122° Fahrenheit

#241

Post by eightysixfour »

sfblah wrote: post #240
squarefoot wrote: post #238

The problem is not the outside temperature, but the small difference from the inside one preventing the circuitry inside the dish to cool down. Also the way it is engineered doesn't help: it draws about 100 Watts of power, but the entire circuitry is enclosed in a plastic container with no way to exchange heat with the outside, and the heating parts are kept in "contact" with the metal plate working as heatsink throu…

100 watts seems like a lot for a receiver. Any idea where all that energy is going? Signal amplification?

It also has to send using a phased array as well.

Re: Starlink dishes go into “thermal shutdown” once they hit 122° Fahrenheit

#242

Post by knownjorbist »

new_realist wrote: post #170
blhack wrote: post #154

Starlink is in beta. The entire purpose of the beta is to find stuff like this. They found something, and I'm sure that the next iteration of this before it goes to mass market will account for it. You're just seeing the system work.

This flaw was known to SpaceX before the beta began; SpaceX has publicly said the dishes are only certified to 104° Fahrenheit. Musk prefers to ship known broken products in the name of velocity, and out of a sociopathic contempt for the consumer. It’s happened to me more than once.

This is the most ridiculous characterization. It's literally a beta.

Re: Starlink dishes go into “thermal shutdown” once they hit 122° Fahrenheit

#243

Post by sfblah »

iamhamm wrote: post #218
11thEarlOfMar wrote: post #8

Parting Shot: "To all beta testers using Starlink this summer, better come up with a dish heat management system or else face no connectivity. Not surprising, considering this is a company owned by Elon Musk."

FWIW, I have Starlink and I'm in Pahrump, NV. We hit 111F today and my dishy is in direct sunlight so easily was over 122F on surfaces. Didn't go into thermal shutdown, no disruptions in service, and I didn't have to water it either.

What do you do in Pahrump, NV!? Such a remote place!

Re: Starlink dishes go into “thermal shutdown” once they hit 122° Fahrenheit

#244

Post by Black101 »

knownjorbist wrote: post #242
new_realist wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This flaw was known to SpaceX before the beta began; SpaceX has publicly said the dishes are only certified to 104° Fahrenheit. Musk prefers to ship known broken products in the name of velocity, and out of a sociopathic contempt for the consumer. It’s happened to me more than once.

This is the most ridiculous characterization. It's literally a beta.

This was programmed in... it is not a bug... it is just a known flaw. Has nothing to do with it being beta. Beta means that unknown bugs might pop up...

Re: Starlink dishes go into “thermal shutdown” once they hit 122° Fahrenheit

#245

Post by Miraste »

Johnny555 wrote: post #232
failwhaleshark wrote: post #166

It should work at an extension of military temperature ranges for global use indoors, outdoors, and in odd semi-indoor scenarios like the back of a hot truck: -75 to +125 C / -103 F to 257 F. Treating it as retail consumer electronics shit isn't rugged enough for real use.

Treating it as retail consumer electronics shit isn't rugged enough for real use. But it is retail consumer electronics and it should be able to handle temperatures commonly encountered for a retail electronics satellite dish, which includes a hot roof in Arizona, but does not include the back of a hot truck where a consumer shouldn't expect his home dish to operate.

If they make the dishes fully mobile as promised, the hot truck is a reasonable situation to expect and design for.

Re: Starlink dishes go into “thermal shutdown” once they hit 122° Fahrenheit

#246

Post by [deleted] »

willhinsa wrote: post #191
tyingq wrote: post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They put a non-automotive grade LCD in Teslas. I assume because they thought they knew better. I suspect hubris is at play more than full-on incompetence.

Just curious, what are the differences between normal LCD's and automotive-grade LCD's?

[deleted]

Re: Starlink dishes go into “thermal shutdown” once they hit 122° Fahrenheit

#247

Post by ethanbond »

dragonwriter wrote: post #72
ethanbond wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A good litmus test for good city location is whether or not melting objects/burns from touching objects is a daily concern

“Product is fine, it is human civilization that is broken”, huh?

Building cities of several million people in regions with no water? Growing cotton, cattle, and world renowned golf courses? Yeah, that’s pretty obviously broken.

I grew up in Arizona. You regularly hear people saying, “well, there’s no water left to build but hey, people keep buying so we’ll keep building!”

Cheap land and subsidized water paid to give to a bunch of ranchers who despise socialism. “Broken” is being generous.

Re: Starlink dishes go into “thermal shutdown” once they hit 122° Fahrenheit

#248

Post by gimmeThaBeet »

MattGaiser wrote: post #77
andrewmcwatters wrote: post #6

I’m always surprised how poor engineering gets exposed in products I purchase being an Arizona resident. No, failing at 122F is not acceptable. If your hardware is exposed to outside conditions, it should operate easily below 32F, and well above 140F. Considering that phones can operate below 0F and near 122F, that’s embarrassingly bad. Same thing in vehicles. If you’re driving consistently at interstate speeds, you…

122F is 50C. How much of the world actually gets that hot? AZ is currently the hottest place in the world at the moment. Not the upper range. The hottest place. https://www.wx-now.com/Weather/WxExtremes?hottest=true

In addition to what people have said about the temperature of surfaces in direct sunlight, you have to account for the power the electronics are using. The aluminum backplate is serving multiple purposes, but judging by the gap pad they are using and RF electronics in general, it's likely a non-trivial amount of power.

Re: Starlink dishes go into “thermal shutdown” once they hit 122° Fahrenheit

#249

Post by Johnny555 »

Miraste wrote: post #245
Johnny555 wrote: post #232

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Treating it as retail consumer electronics shit isn't rugged enough for real use. But it is retail consumer electronics and it should be able to handle temperatures commonly encountered for a retail electronics satellite dish, which includes a hot roof in Arizona, but does not include the back of a hot truck where a consumer shouldn't expect his home dish to operate.

If they make the dishes fully mobile as promised, the hot truck is a reasonable situation to expect and design for.

Wouldn't that go on top of the truck, rather than in the truck?

Re: Starlink dishes go into “thermal shutdown” once they hit 122° Fahrenheit

#250

Post by huslage »

nickysielicki wrote: post #128
andrewmcwatters wrote: post #6

I’m always surprised how poor engineering gets exposed in products I purchase being an Arizona resident. No, failing at 122F is not acceptable. If your hardware is exposed to outside conditions, it should operate easily below 32F, and well above 140F. Considering that phones can operate below 0F and near 122F, that’s embarrassingly bad. Same thing in vehicles. If you’re driving consistently at interstate speeds, you…

It's not trivial to do things at tens of gigahertz at a wide range of temperatures. They didn't engineer it this way because they didn't consider the existence of Arizona, Texas, and Southern California. The thermal limits exist because RF is absurdly difficult. Maybe in 30 years we'll have TCXOs and other RFICs that make it trivial. Right now it's not. tl;dr: Your phone doesn't have radios capable of talking on band…

SpaceX is literally based in Hawthorne, CA. These dishes are made in a place where it gets stupidly hot.
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