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I know the secret to the quiet mind but wish I’d never learned it

theatlantic.com

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Re: I know the secret to the quiet mind but wish I’d never learned it

#91

Post by Aerroon »

>Have I always been bad at finding things? Maybe? There are limits to how well an injured brain can scrutinize an injured brain.

This is something I've worried about ever since I was a teenager. If something happens to my mind, how will I know? The answer I've come up with is that I can't fully know, but my best bet is to "reason on paper".

Externalize the facts and opinions (write them down or say them out loud) and then run logic on them using some explainable algorithm. Basically, do it like we do math: the numbers and figures on paper will allow anyone to continue where you stopped. Even if you forget what you were doing or you can't do large scale abstract reasoning, because you've written it down, you can do it piece by piece.

When I suffered what seemed to have been a "ministroke" (basically a stroke that solves itself) my cognitive abilities were obviously affected. I seemed to operate basically only on short term memory - several seconds at a time. Anything that happened before that seemed to fade from memory. Saying out loud what I wanted to do and then continuously repeating it out loud enabled me to do more complex tasks. Unfortunately, I had no sense of danger from it.

Writing (typing), however, was not really possible. I knew what I wanted to write, but it became "slurred". I hadn't considered that before. I even recognized myself that what I wrote was difficult to decipher, but somehow I just couldn't type out the words correctly.

I still think that reasoning on paper or out loud is your best bet in these situations.

Re: I know the secret to the quiet mind but wish I’d never learned it

#92

Post by nradov »

throwaway205826 wrote: post #65
skadamou wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm so sorry this happened to you and I'm glad you are starting to feel at least somewhat back to your old self. I definitely understand where this opinion of docs is coming from as there are definitely some incompetent docs out there but don't you think that your opinion is largely based around an anecdotal experience that is probably pretty abnormal? Medicine as a field is still pretty unscientific in a lot of ways…

> Is that really the doctors fault? It seemed that most of the doctors I had to deal with were incompetent either because they were lazy or stupid. Realistically maybe they were just overworked, but the effect was the same. I’m not really interested in assigning “fault” here - that’s just a factual observation I made.

Are you qualified to evaluate competence in that field? What specific criteria did you use?

Re: I know the secret to the quiet mind but wish I’d never learned it

#93

Post by antihipocrat »

qwerty456127 wrote: post #64
wizzwizz4 wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not really very useful. Of course you exist! You share sufficiently many properties with other things that we would say “exist” that it is more useful to consider you extant than non-existent. What you mean might be a more useful, meaningful concept, but what you've said is kinda nonsense. If you don't exist, who wrote this comment? I'd be interested if you could elaborate.

> If you don't exist, who wrote this comment? The hands. Driven by the chemical phenomena taking place in the brain given the information it had been fed previously. Both the hands and the brain and the memories are mine but not me. The same way my finger is (I won't be less me if I loose it, neither I will if I loose a memory of something, even of my name) and my car is. I am merely the observer of all these but ok,…

When you say you don't exist are you referring to your sense of self identity? i.e your ego, the feeling that your mind and body and all of your senses, emotions, thoughts and memories are a distinct entity?

This idea is very interesting, and not considered strange in philosophy (ego death) and is also prevalent in Buddhism: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anatt%C4%81

Re: I know the secret to the quiet mind but wish I’d never learned it

#94

Post by gwittel »

fellowniusmonk wrote: post #58
throwaway205826 wrote: post #13

A few years ago I got some kind of brain illness. Doctors were unable to come up with a strong diagnosis, which is apparently quite common for such cases. One of the effects of the illness was that I essentially became stupid. I couldn’t focus on anything (even trivial activities like watching television), I couldn’t compose emails, I would get disoriented easily. It was absolutely terrifying not knowing whether or n…

While I have no particular position, my brother is a molecular biologist and bioinformatics guy who has been published in nature, featured in NYT, etc. A true scientific nerds nerd, and he endlessly ridiculed the poor science and poor scientific understanding of people on the M.D. track that he interacted with in labs while he was doing research. I do have this anecdote from deep personal experience though... pediatr…

> poor science and poor scientific understanding of people on the M.D. track

Definitely a thing. At least historically, research is not a big part of a MD program in the US. MD/PhD programs are where its at -- Basically you do a few years of med school, then PhD, then finish MD. Its a very long haul. After which you usually go into Postdoc research or medical residency.

The best doctor I ever had was incredibly perceptive and compassionate. What did she teach in med school? How to work with patients (i.e. bedside manner). She moved on to head palliative care, another area where empathy is key.

Like any other profession doctors span a range of competency. There is an old joke: What do you call the person who finished last in medical school? Doctor.

Re: I know the secret to the quiet mind but wish I’d never learned it

#95

Post by blablabla123 »

fellowniusmonk wrote: post #58
throwaway205826 wrote: post #13

A few years ago I got some kind of brain illness. Doctors were unable to come up with a strong diagnosis, which is apparently quite common for such cases. One of the effects of the illness was that I essentially became stupid. I couldn’t focus on anything (even trivial activities like watching television), I couldn’t compose emails, I would get disoriented easily. It was absolutely terrifying not knowing whether or n…

While I have no particular position, my brother is a molecular biologist and bioinformatics guy who has been published in nature, featured in NYT, etc. A true scientific nerds nerd, and he endlessly ridiculed the poor science and poor scientific understanding of people on the M.D. track that he interacted with in labs while he was doing research. I do have this anecdote from deep personal experience though... pediatr…

I remember former fellow students telling how they corrected medical students' practical physics internship assignments. Apparently the statistical rigour is much lower. On the other hand, I guess in pure natural sciences you work with much more indirection and have zero results nowadays unless you use a lot of tools. Probably there aren't that many medical conditions that can be treated in-depth based on first principles but I think concluding that whole medical science can be replaced by an AI assistant might be a bit far-fetched. Compassion is probably under-estimated indeed. Some people with serious conditions prefer to be treated at objectively less sophisticated yet less industrialized facilities.

Re: I know the secret to the quiet mind but wish I’d never learned it

#96

Post by monoideism »

throwaway205826 wrote: post #13

A few years ago I got some kind of brain illness. Doctors were unable to come up with a strong diagnosis, which is apparently quite common for such cases. One of the effects of the illness was that I essentially became stupid. I couldn’t focus on anything (even trivial activities like watching television), I couldn’t compose emails, I would get disoriented easily. It was absolutely terrifying not knowing whether or n…

> . Like any other industry, 90% of medical “experts” are totally incompetent.

100% correct. I’m dealing with some serious health issues the past year (multiple worsening chronic conditions, in and out of hospital, lost 30 lbs in 3 months, etc). And yeah, the vast majority of them are idiots who know nothing more than to pull out a (often dangerous) pharma that addresses a single symptom. And forget treatment - I was just hoping for a firm diagnosis. But they hem and haw, and don’t seem at all up to date with the latest research. You’re on your own.

Re: I know the secret to the quiet mind but wish I’d never learned it

#97

Post by CyberDildonics »

throw9239393 wrote: post #72
CyberDildonics wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's amazing that you made this name and another, both posting a comment in this thread one minute after creation talking about how great this article is while lots of other people in the thread are calling it terribly written clickbait.

I also made a throwaway account to make a comment here. I also said the article was well written. I am an HN regular, but didn't want my medical problem tied to my HN account name. Is it that odd that we might have polar opposite views on the article? Or that having a somewhat similar experience to the author, that I might view the article differently than you do?

It is odd that you would make two different names just to talk up the article, yes.

Re: I know the secret to the quiet mind but wish I’d never learned it

#98

Post by throwaway205826 »

garenp wrote: post #67
throwaway205826 wrote: post #13

A few years ago I got some kind of brain illness. Doctors were unable to come up with a strong diagnosis, which is apparently quite common for such cases. One of the effects of the illness was that I essentially became stupid. I couldn’t focus on anything (even trivial activities like watching television), I couldn’t compose emails, I would get disoriented easily. It was absolutely terrifying not knowing whether or n…

Was there anything you did that helped you get better?

Hard to say what actually helped, but two high-impact low-cost behavioral changes I made (and stuck with) were a strict ketogenic diet and regular heavy exercise (mixture of cardio and weight training). Ketogenic diet has a lot going for it - besides being a nice elimination diet (in case your problem is some kind of dietary autoimmune condition or food allergy or something), it also treats a lot of possible metabolic conditions. Exercise as well. I’m sure resting (mentally) helped but I didn’t have much choice there - resting was the only activity I could really do, and even that I couldn’t do very well.

Re: I know the secret to the quiet mind but wish I’d never learned it

#99

Post by quickthrower2 »

I would recommend Taoism type thinking for this person because there needs to be acceptance that this reduced brain capacity (or call it brain rewiring) is the way, while possible and paradoxically trying to fix it at the same time.

If you are super switched on and rely on that smartness as part of your identity that’s gonna hurt when it’s diminished. And you switch from go getter to helped person.

Re: I know the secret to the quiet mind but wish I’d never learned it

#100

Post by meheleventyone »

fellowniusmonk wrote: post #58
throwaway205826 wrote: post #13

A few years ago I got some kind of brain illness. Doctors were unable to come up with a strong diagnosis, which is apparently quite common for such cases. One of the effects of the illness was that I essentially became stupid. I couldn’t focus on anything (even trivial activities like watching television), I couldn’t compose emails, I would get disoriented easily. It was absolutely terrifying not knowing whether or n…

While I have no particular position, my brother is a molecular biologist and bioinformatics guy who has been published in nature, featured in NYT, etc. A true scientific nerds nerd, and he endlessly ridiculed the poor science and poor scientific understanding of people on the M.D. track that he interacted with in labs while he was doing research. I do have this anecdote from deep personal experience though... pediatr…

It’s a bit of a misunderstanding of the role of doctors as well IMO. Apart from a small fraction of them they aren’t scientists or researchers and aren’t supposed to be. And the human body is complex, problems can arise which can’t easily be understood. The expectation that every doctor is House and we’ll each get millions of dollar of diagnostics is wrong. There’s also a reason why experiments in science require an awful lot of preparation and rigor that doesn’t exist in the happenstance of the real world. No AI is going to solve for a lack of information or confounding factors that make understanding what’s happened impossible.

I had a heart attack nearly six weeks ago despite being healthy, fit and having no chronic health issues. They kept me in hospital for five days after I got a clot squished by a stent. I’ve come back negative for basically everything bar some immune disorder tests I’m waiting on the results of. The fact I’ve not heard probably means those were negative as well. So I got this fatal blood clot and the medical staff absolutely knocked it out of the park in terms of working out what the acute issue was, dealing with it without undue distress (seriously a PCI is magic) and my care and rehabilitation afterwards has been great. But I’ll likely never know why it happened.

The other side of that is I end up on a standard cocktail of medication despite having a normal blood pressure, normal cholesterol and so on. Essentially the drug regime seems calibrated for the average heart attack patient which is someone older with chronic problems. I had a rash as a side effect and the doctors swapped a med and I’m fine again. How did they know what to change of the six meds? I guess experience and wider statistical analysis in the medical community. It worked!

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