HK's Apple Daily raided by 500 officers over national security law • Hacker News Board

Re: HK's Apple Daily raided by 500 officers over national security law

#191

Post by ridiculous_lol » Fri, Jun 18, 2021, 10:08 AM UTC

mytailorisrich wrote: post #164

blendergeek wrote: post #97

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> HK is [a part] of China Politically? Physically? Culturally? Morally? Currently Hong Kong is ruled by China. Many in Hong Kong might prefer something different. If the government in Beijing allowed them to, they might choose complete independence. > why should GB be able to dictate Chinese law based on a colony they took from China hundreds of years ago? Why should a government in Beijing be allowed to dictate poli…

> Politically? Physically? Culturally? Morally? Currently Hong Kong is ruled by China. Many in Hong Kong might prefer something different. If the government in Beijing allowed them to, they might choose complete independence. This ignorance and arrogance actually makes strong action by the central (Chinese) government even more popular and supported by the Chinese public. Western opinion has somehow been made to beli…

PRC can also claim Vietnam with this reasoning, right?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vietnam_under_Chinese_rule

Re: HK's Apple Daily raided by 500 officers over national security law

#192

Post by mschuster91 » Fri, Jun 18, 2021, 10:13 AM UTC

fighterpilot wrote: post #190

mschuster91 wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Invest into manufacturing and infrastructure on US, European, African and Southern American soil. The leverage that China has is that way too many Western nations and companies have both their supply chain and the only market that is growing in China. By investing into a "Western New Belt Road" - not just in terms of infrastructure, but also in other measures like stabilization by drying out the market of drug cartel…

What are the reasons China has been so successful in taking up the role of the world's manufacturer and other developing countries haven't?

A reckless disregard for any kind of protection - no matter if for workers or the environment -, generous government subsidies, and an abundance of young and healthy workers ready to be exploited.

Network effects have done the rest, see e.g. https://hackaday.com/2016/02/07/bunnies-guide-to-shenzhen-el...

Re: HK's Apple Daily raided by 500 officers over national security law

#193

Post by philliphaydon » Fri, Jun 18, 2021, 10:14 AM UTC

dirtyid wrote: post #160

philliphaydon wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> ruling establishment in China enjoy majority support We don’t know the support because anyone who dares to speak up is silenced. People are too scared to say they don’t like the government. The claim is that the CCP has 95% approval rating. But the local governments have a 10% approval rating. The local governments are The Central government. Nothing the local governments do is done without The Central governments…

>We don’t know the support There are decades of polling, analysis of polling methodology by western NGOs and institutions to support these findings. The “Surprise” of Authoritarian Resilience in China https://americanaffairsjournal.org/2018/02/surprise-authorit... > Nothing the local governments do is done without The Central governments oversight and approval. "The Mountains Are High and the Emperor Is Far Away". CC…

> There are decades of polling, analysis of polling methodology by western NGOs and institutions to support these findings.

Polling put Hillary at 98% chance of winning and she still lost. Unless you support the conspiracy theories that Russia hacked the election.

It’s not hidden knowledge that a lot of Chinese people are scared to say anything bad.

Re: HK's Apple Daily raided by 500 officers over national security law

#194

Post by tpm » Fri, Jun 18, 2021, 10:28 AM UTC

hulitu wrote: post #129

jollybean wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We don't cry tears because of the kind of journalism, we cry tears because it was on some level journalism or at minimum freedom of expression and the clampdown means the same it will happen to you if you try that route. Anyone who contradicts Putin and gets any stickiness or popularity ends up dead. You don't have to agree with Putin's antagonists to realize why that is bad.

In every country in the world, when you claim that police murdered 2000 people, you will get in trouble. It has nothing to do with freedom of expression, exept when you have very good evidence but even then it's dangerous to make such claims.

No you won't. There are lots of conspiracy theory lunatics running around in Western (or many other) countries claiming stuff like this and nobody is arresting them if they don't also propagate or participate in violence.

Re: HK's Apple Daily raided by 500 officers over national security law

#195

Post by jbirer » Fri, Jun 18, 2021, 10:33 AM UTC

phyalow wrote: post #3

This is another nail in the coffin of the Hong Kong we knew and loved… I was a resident for many years, I witnessed the peaceful protests of 2014, I witnessed horrifying wanton violence in 2019, I witnessed the rapid destruction of the freest laissez faire city state in the world. Above all I feel great sadness for the people of Hong Kong. The CCP cannot tolerate any dissenting voices as a matter of preserving their…

I visited Hong Kong in January 2020 for the second time, having become mesmerized with the development, skyline and freedom during my first visit in 2018. It was a truly sad sight to see, people afraid to speak, red banners everywhere, lots of questions asked at the border etc.

Re: HK's Apple Daily raided by 500 officers over national security law

#196

Post by utbabya » Fri, Jun 18, 2021, 10:40 AM UTC

blendergeek wrote: post #97

throwaway384028 wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I dont really buy this. HK is apart of China, why should GB be able to dictate Chinese law based on a colony they took from China hundreds of years ago?

> HK is [a part] of China Politically? Physically? Culturally? Morally? Currently Hong Kong is ruled by China. Many in Hong Kong might prefer something different. If the government in Beijing allowed them to, they might choose complete independence. > why should GB be able to dictate Chinese law based on a colony they took from China hundreds of years ago? Why should a government in Beijing be allowed to dictate poli…

As a Hongkonger, I see some similarities of culture between Hong Kong and China, but the differences are materially stronger, even more so than when you compare some countries in Europe.

I can give one distinct example. Our people's definition of patriotism in general is to make things happen so we can be proud of ourselves, that's why 2 million (or 25% of the population) walked out. Instead of "voicing support" so "we" look good despite terrible decisions or actions by the government. Many Chinese are intelligent and good people, they just can't get over this particular bit because of years of education and cross influence while the counter voices are silenced. (Apologies for the generalization, I do make friend with Chinese, this just represent the sample size of all the Chinese people I've interacted with.)

Personally I think nationalism is just an necessary evil because tribes are stronger. I'd rather identify with people having same believe, interests and thought spectrum. So the thought of "this place or these group of people must belong to us" is just beyond me, particularly if the process involves destroying all the value of this place.

I think everyone would be happier if Hong Kong is independent, and we work out a deal that benefits both sides. Too bad we're human, we love power, so CCP reached an illogical conclusion. Hongkongers are now talking about leaving with the main focus the preservation of our cultural identity. Much easier these days with tech.

Re: HK's Apple Daily raided by 500 officers over national security law

#197

Post by mytailorisrich » Fri, Jun 18, 2021, 10:52 AM UTC

ridiculous_lol wrote: post #191

mytailorisrich wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Politically? Physically? Culturally? Morally? Currently Hong Kong is ruled by China. Many in Hong Kong might prefer something different. If the government in Beijing allowed them to, they might choose complete independence. This ignorance and arrogance actually makes strong action by the central (Chinese) government even more popular and supported by the Chinese public. Western opinion has somehow been made to beli…

PRC can also claim Vietnam with this reasoning, right? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vietnam_under_Chinese_rule

There no equivalence at all between Hongkong and Vietnam... That's beyond ridiculous.

Re: HK's Apple Daily raided by 500 officers over national security law

#198

Post by robjan » Fri, Jun 18, 2021, 10:55 AM UTC

baybal2 wrote: post #183

xwolfi wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well the goal of Beijing is for the party to survive, there are many solutions between murdering us all and let HK become a country. I mean we're a city, we have no army, what do you propose ? I propose to work around the party, like Macau, sing the anthem from time to time and basta, the problem can only be fixed by China as a whole, not at our level. Beijing cannot "back off" more violence, they can only double dow…

> if they're a mafia in need of legitimacy and survival, that committed too many crimes to welcome honest competition, If you back down to a mafia in need of legitimacy and survival, you support the mafia, and you become a man without honour. Such people never returned a punch to the face, and never prevailed. > I mean we're a city, we have no army, what do you propose ? For the amount of money an average HK billiona…

The average HK billionaire is rich because of China. They aren't going to bite the hand that feeds them.

Re: HK's Apple Daily raided by 500 officers over national security law

#199

Post by CogitoCogito » Fri, Jun 18, 2021, 10:59 AM UTC

mytailorisrich wrote: post #184

CogitoCogito wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Please stop with your grandstanding of what is and is not moral. China has a long imperialist history of taking over areas not culturally, ethnically, or morally a part of China. Tibet and Xinjiang are two obvious examples and the fact that it happened in the past doesn't make it better (especially when there is an active push by the PRC today to further assimilate the areas). The fact that they act like they have so…

> These were wars waged between two empires. China wasn't some sort of blameless victim I would invite you to learn the history of the period and place because that's painful to read.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but are you saying China wasn't an empire? Are you serious? The China that subjugated huge numbers of neighboring peoples? The China that was ruled by an emperor? The China that treated all neighboring countries as vassals? That China?

Or am I misunderstanding you?

edit: I guess I'll just interpret the downvotes as "yes I was understanding you correctly" and "no you don't really have a response other than hiding behind your twisted worldview where somehow China is a victim and not all the victims of China's actions over the millennia".

Re: HK's Apple Daily raided by 500 officers over national security law

#200

Post by ackbar03 » Fri, Jun 18, 2021, 11:19 AM UTC

jjcc wrote: post #112

phyalow wrote: post #3

This is another nail in the coffin of the Hong Kong we knew and loved… I was a resident for many years, I witnessed the peaceful protests of 2014, I witnessed horrifying wanton violence in 2019, I witnessed the rapid destruction of the freest laissez faire city state in the world. Above all I feel great sadness for the people of Hong Kong. The CCP cannot tolerate any dissenting voices as a matter of preserving their…

Any idea that this happened only recently? There are already raids earlier along with other punishment. Without new provocation, this one seems totally unnecessary. A reasonable interpretation about this raid, based on the timing and some knowledge about China and CPP, would be: this is a response to G7's recent communique. But I bet not many people get the message because with some existing ideology that people usua…

This shows the importance of cultural understanding and the lack of it when western commentators look at events in China. July 1st marks the 100th anniversary of the CCP, its pretty simple. It was probably done just to make ensure stability and so that it goes by without a hitch and nobody tries anything stupid. This sort of stuff is pretty typical of them, especially near important dates.