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HK's Apple Daily raided by 500 officers over national security law

reuters.com

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Re: HK's Apple Daily raided by 500 officers over national security law

#141

Post by jollybean »

hulitu wrote: post #129
jollybean wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We don't cry tears because of the kind of journalism, we cry tears because it was on some level journalism or at minimum freedom of expression and the clampdown means the same it will happen to you if you try that route. Anyone who contradicts Putin and gets any stickiness or popularity ends up dead. You don't have to agree with Putin's antagonists to realize why that is bad.

In every country in the world, when you claim that police murdered 2000 people, you will get in trouble. It has nothing to do with freedom of expression, exept when you have very good evidence but even then it's dangerous to make such claims.

This is not true.

Go on to Twitter right now and say those things. In almost every democracy, nothing will happen to you.

Put up a website and make that claim.

You might get banned from Facebook.

If the Apple journalists published information about the roughly 10 000 people that were killed in Tianamen protests, would they get shut down as well? [1]

Do you see somewhere in the UK or the US where 500 police raid a major news entity?

They might do that if the paper leaked sensitive military information ... but even then that'd be extremely rare and it would not happen merely for making ridiculous claims.

Anyone who challenges Xi or the CCP will end up in jail.

The obvious solution would be to allow Hong Kong residents to vote in their own leaders and decide for themselves.

[1] https://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-china-42465516

Re: HK's Apple Daily raided by 500 officers over national security law

#142

Post by jollybean »

jquery wrote: post #53
adventured wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are no actions the US, EU, Japan & Co. can collective take that will alter China's political system from the outside. It's why whenever people talk about ganging up on China, they're always extremely vague about it. That's because it's entirely bunk. Do something! What? Something! Do a thing! Which thing? The thing! It's identical to bumper stickers that (used to) say: Save Tibet, it's largely empty virtue sign…

So what’s your big plan? Sounds like fatalism to me, and I’m not buying it. China is just the latest authoritarian government to look unstoppable from the outside just like the USSR once did. It does not have the internal agility necessary to thrive long term. Already China’s diplomatic “wolf warriors” are making fools of China on the international stage, and China is increasingly unable to pragmatically adjust. This…

Russia looked unstoppable from the outside, but from the inside it was crumbling.

China is not crumbling. They don't have a controlled economy in the direct way that the Russians did, and as long as they have economic prosperity ... they'll do just fine.

I don't see them screwing that up.

It doesn't matter that much who's diplomats look like fools, it matters what the GDP is, how powerful the military is, how much control and leverage they have.

China probably will never do well on 'soft power' but they're going to probably do just fine with 'regular power' for the forseeable future.

Re: HK's Apple Daily raided by 500 officers over national security law

#143

Post by SXX »

jollybean wrote: post #40
selimthegrim wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do they need HK as long as there are no sanctions otherwise?

HK is the financial gateway between China and the Rest of the World and that's how most foreign direct investment happens. It's because HK is open to the world and also China, but ROW not really open to China. China, by 'taking over HK' really implies that HK shouldn't really enjoy fee access to world markets. This is unlikely to change though as the situation benefits everyone financial and it's not based on human r…

Change of accounting standards will certainly follow as totalitarian governments are walking hand in hand with creative accounting. You just cant have society of doublespeak and censorship while maintaining transparent financial system.

If CCP will try to preserve financial system degradation might just take longer, but after few decades and several imminient emigration waves it's will be mainland all over.

Re: HK's Apple Daily raided by 500 officers over national security law

#144

Post by extraAccount »

riffraff wrote: post #114
makeitdouble wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the current climate if the US doesn't move nobody will (or it will just be a "look at me" gesture) Why do I think so? Because the US accumulated that unprecedented power you refer to, and Japan or GB or Canada trying anything from themselves just means they'll be pissing in the wind until the US decides to do it as well. The EU seems to me the only exception to that, but then I am not sure its majority sees a big…

The EU foreign policy needs unanimity, and some of the governments (mostly Hungary right now) will not allow it to take positions against abusive dictatorships. So it'll be many years before the EU becomes a foreign policy power.

The EU has a lot of domestic problems it is trying to address. It is in no position to try to deal with China.

Re: HK's Apple Daily raided by 500 officers over national security law

#145

Post by mads »

lvturner wrote: post #130
nahnopay wrote: post #12

Hong Kong government can get fucked, I no longer have any incentive to visit so fuck that tax bill that will only get channeled to corrupt forces ran by the mainlanders. It's a sad situation though because the Hong Kong people are genuinely lovely people, polar opposite of a cross the border. Sure call me out, but the belief is stronger in native hong longers than the expat community, you have to live there to apprec…

> It's a sad situation though because the Hong Kong people are genuinely lovely people, polar opposite of a cross the border. Sure call me out, but the belief is stronger in native hong longers than the expat community, you have to live there to appreciate. That is an incredibly ignorant which racist statement which I do not feel belongs on Hacker News.

I dont get it. What is racist about it?

Re: HK's Apple Daily raided by 500 officers over national security law

#146

Post by Ice_cream_suit »

The owner of Apple Daily should thank his stars that he is not charged under Australian law.

We have a situation here in Australia where people accused of vaguely defined "national security" crimes are charged secretly and tried by secret courts.

We have also had counter-terrorism police raid and arrest journalists and youtube comedians because a minister felt that he was insulted by them.

Re: HK's Apple Daily raided by 500 officers over national security law

#147

Post by lvturner »

mads wrote: post #145
lvturner wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's a sad situation though because the Hong Kong people are genuinely lovely people, polar opposite of a cross the border. Sure call me out, but the belief is stronger in native hong longers than the expat community, you have to live there to appreciate. That is an incredibly ignorant which racist statement which I do not feel belongs on Hacker News.

I dont get it. What is racist about it?

I will take your question in good faith and assume that you merely missed it due to the way the original statement was worded.

It explicitly states that everyone "over the border" (in Mainland China) are the polar opposite of "genuinely lovely people" which would be to say that every single person living in/from Mainland China is a horrible/nasty person.

This is quite clearly both ignorant and racist - also, provably false.

Re: HK's Apple Daily raided by 500 officers over national security law

#148

Post by yibg »

alau1218 wrote: post #67
neverminder wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is something I don't understand as well. Why didn't Hong Kong choose to become an independent state when they had the chance? They could have thrived like Singapore does.

CCP didn't allow Hong Kong people to choose. They didn't even allow Hong Kong people to participate in the hand over negotiation. Remember CCP is a group of savage dictators and does not embrace the Western values, such as respect, equality, that are familiar to us.

I have no love for the CCP but I think this type of caricature simplification is both wrong and not insightful. The CCP members are not some cartoon villains bent on world domination.

Re: HK's Apple Daily raided by 500 officers over national security law

#149

Post by accurrent »

phyalow wrote: post #3

This is another nail in the coffin of the Hong Kong we knew and loved… I was a resident for many years, I witnessed the peaceful protests of 2014, I witnessed horrifying wanton violence in 2019, I witnessed the rapid destruction of the freest laissez faire city state in the world. Above all I feel great sadness for the people of Hong Kong. The CCP cannot tolerate any dissenting voices as a matter of preserving their…

I would politely disagree with you on the G7 front - its all talk and no action. In the end the people who will suffer for the comments made in the G7 are these journalists. The fact is all that has been done is a bunch of talking. The fact is yes there are things which CCP is doing that is very wrong, and yes they have a very low tolerance towards dissent. However, any comment coming from USA and England makes the scenario even worse. In part this is because the "west" doesn't have a particularly positive PR impression in Asia. Many view the G7 as a group of countries that take their own decisions without consulting others.

For any protest to be successful, one side has to eventually reach a compromise. When the protests first started in 2019 for months they were peaceful. This was actually the time when they were the scariest for the CCP as its very hard to justify any action against them. Heck, I had friends who were PRC nationals who crossed the border to take part in them (just because they were curious what protest was and no other political reason whatsoever, and yes, they're alive and fine right now). The problems started when a few people displayed xenophobia towards PRC which unraveled into violence. At this point it became incredibly easy for CCP to smear the protests back home as all they needed to show in their local media was the few instances of violence against PRC nationals, juxtaposed against images of their own soldiers who were shown sweeping streets. Once England and USA started making comments about the human rights situation it was essentially a death knell for the protesters. This is because in China many consider USA and England's human rights comments hypocritical given that both countries grew economically by exploiting slaves (in USA's case) and colonies (in England's case).

Personally, I don't think politicians making bold statements from countries halfway across the world will help at all. Xenophobia overseas will make the matters even worse. Rather than turning anti-China and uber-nationalistic what would dismantle the CCP is to actually work towards winning the hearts of the 1 billion+ population, majority of whom actually have benefited from the CCP's reign.

Re: HK's Apple Daily raided by 500 officers over national security law

#150

Post by yibg »

blendergeek wrote: post #97
throwaway384028 wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I dont really buy this. HK is apart of China, why should GB be able to dictate Chinese law based on a colony they took from China hundreds of years ago?

> HK is [a part] of China Politically? Physically? Culturally? Morally? Currently Hong Kong is ruled by China. Many in Hong Kong might prefer something different. If the government in Beijing allowed them to, they might choose complete independence. > why should GB be able to dictate Chinese law based on a colony they took from China hundreds of years ago? Why should a government in Beijing be allowed to dictate poli…

Serious question. How common is it for a group of people to have this level of self determination? Eg if people in California decided not to be part of the US, can they?
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