On to Taiwan
HK's Apple Daily raided by 500 officers over national security law
51–60 of 261 posts
Re: HK's Apple Daily raided by 500 officers over national security law
#52Earlier quoted context omitted.
> the US, Japan, Canada, GB, AUS, the EU need to band together to counter China’s egregious rights abuses Countries living in glass houses cannot throw stones on others. Moreover each country has it's own flaws, so before asking others to correct each one of them needs to correct themselves (like those countries ruling establishment in China enjoy majority support and minority like in any system democratic or communi…
> ruling establishment in China enjoy majority support We don’t know the support because anyone who dares to speak up is silenced. People are too scared to say they don’t like the government. The claim is that the CCP has 95% approval rating. But the local governments have a 10% approval rating. The local governments are The Central government. Nothing the local governments do is done without The Central governments…
I find the 95% figure hilarious, frankly. As if 95% of any population on the face of the planet could agree on anything, much less a population of over a billion.
It being as high as it is tells me it's fake. Not fake as in falsified directly, but definitely fake in that the citizens opinions are manipulated via information control. The later makes perfect sense with the 10% figure for local governments. You can lie to people about how things are going far away, but you can't lie to them about how they're going in their backyard.
Re: HK's Apple Daily raided by 500 officers over national security law
#53Earlier quoted context omitted.
In the current climate if the US doesn't move nobody will (or it will just be a "look at me" gesture) Why do I think so? Because the US accumulated that unprecedented power you refer to, and Japan or GB or Canada trying anything from themselves just means they'll be pissing in the wind until the US decides to do it as well. The EU seems to me the only exception to that, but then I am not sure its majority sees a big…
There are no actions the US, EU, Japan & Co. can collective take that will alter China's political system from the outside. It's why whenever people talk about ganging up on China, they're always extremely vague about it. That's because it's entirely bunk. Do something! What? Something! Do a thing! Which thing? The thing! It's identical to bumper stickers that (used to) say: Save Tibet, it's largely empty virtue sign…
So what’s your big plan? Sounds like fatalism to me, and I’m not buying it. China is just the latest authoritarian government to look unstoppable from the outside just like the USSR once did. It does not have the internal agility necessary to thrive long term. Already China’s diplomatic “wolf warriors” are making fools of China on the international stage, and China is increasingly unable to pragmatically adjust. This ossification will continue under Xi.
Re: HK's Apple Daily raided by 500 officers over national security law
#54Earlier quoted context omitted.
There are no actions the US, EU, Japan & Co. can collective take that will alter China's political system from the outside. It's why whenever people talk about ganging up on China, they're always extremely vague about it. That's because it's entirely bunk. Do something! What? Something! Do a thing! Which thing? The thing! It's identical to bumper stickers that (used to) say: Save Tibet, it's largely empty virtue sign…
The obvious counterweight to China is India, which has a similar population and a rapidly growing economy. However, they're several decades behind China on all fronts (economy, wealth, education, infrastructure, you name it) and with Modi at the helm and COVID continuing to wreak havoc it's entirely plausible that they go into reverse gear again.
Modi is a wicked man. It’s really sad what’s happening in India.
I wouldn’t say India is several decades behind China on all fronts, though. Cultural exports (Bollywood) are on par with China. It’s hard to produce exportable culture under severe authoritarian regimes.
Re: HK's Apple Daily raided by 500 officers over national security law
#55Hong Kong is dead, and the CCP killed it. Daily reminder that the Chinese Government should never ever be trusted. China agreed not to touch Hong Kong's system politically or economically until at least 2047. They couldn't manage even half of that, and there are now many Hong Kongers sitting in jail for the "crime" of supporting democracy in Hong Kong (not even China!), which was made illegal by the CCP under "nation…
The writing was on the wall well before it was even handed over. England was in no position to defend the island after the lease on the New Territories ended, nor are they capable of doing anything to prevent the CCP from slowly eroding institutions in Hong Kong now. Everyone else has little to no skin the game to risk anything significant. Their only hope was the belief that the economic development of China would usher in democratic reforms, which hasn't happened.
England never had any leverage in negotiations, so it makes sense that the CCP wouldn't care or honor anything because they correctly predicted that repercussions would be minimal. Over time, the importance of Hong Kong as a financial and economic hub/ gateway to China has waned substantially, so now the instability in the region isn't as costly anymore. The incentives were never there for the CCP to act in good faith.
It is incredibly unfortunate what is happening, but realistically it was only a matter of time before these things happened, the terms they agreed upon weren't much more than window dressing to allow England to exit gracefully.
Re: HK's Apple Daily raided by 500 officers over national security law
#56Earlier quoted context omitted.
The right to govern extends from the consent of the governed. It's not a question of who "should" own Hong Kong based on some centuries old history. It's a question of who the people of Hong Kong choose to govern them. Had an open referendum been held in 1997, it's almost certainly the case that the citizenry would not have voted to return to the tutelage of the dictatorship in Beijing.
>The right to govern extends from the consent of the governed. First I must say that what's happening to HK is tragic, and I very much empathize with their situation, and am not at all in agreement with how the CCP is handling this. But this is quite the take! I don't know if you're US-based, but by that logic if the Native Americans held a referendum, they would have most certainly not allowed the U.S. government to…
Yes, that is why people feel that what was done to Native Americans was wrong. By which I mean that Americans believe it was wrong. It was also 200 years ago, and no explicit treaty had been signed to another world power granting them rights (the French and Spanish sold them out).
Unless you think it was right and the Big Stick is right, then HK is more than tragic. It is a violation of international treaty and of human rights.
Re: HK's Apple Daily raided by 500 officers over national security law
#57This is another nail in the coffin of the Hong Kong we knew and loved… I was a resident for many years, I witnessed the peaceful protests of 2014, I witnessed horrifying wanton violence in 2019, I witnessed the rapid destruction of the freest laissez faire city state in the world. Above all I feel great sadness for the people of Hong Kong. The CCP cannot tolerate any dissenting voices as a matter of preserving their…
Hopefully this is a good lesson for the US because I see their media going the same way. Try voicing any opposition to the Democratic Party's point of view and you're done. No PayPal, no bank account, no social media profiles, people forced to cut ties with you, you get fired from your job.
Before 2019, Hong Kong was probably one of the freest places on Earth in terms of what you can say and do (no elections though).
Re: HK's Apple Daily raided by 500 officers over national security law
#58Earlier quoted context omitted.
The right to govern extends from the consent of the governed. It's not a question of who "should" own Hong Kong based on some centuries old history. It's a question of who the people of Hong Kong choose to govern them. Had an open referendum been held in 1997, it's almost certainly the case that the citizenry would not have voted to return to the tutelage of the dictatorship in Beijing.
This is something I don't understand as well. Why didn't Hong Kong choose to become an independent state when they had the chance? They could have thrived like Singapore does.
They didn't have a choice. It was either rejoin China or get their water cut off.
Re: HK's Apple Daily raided by 500 officers over national security law
#59Earlier quoted context omitted.
What city in the USSR was equivalent to Hong Kong? I am not aware of any cities in the USSR that enjoyed freedom of the press and an independent judiciary at the level that Hong Kong did prior to the NSL crackdowns.
I have no idea but maybe west Germany?
I think you mean East Germany, but I think you are right... and if Russia came back for East Germany now, there would be a war and it would likely go nuclear, because it is part of a powerful neighboring country. HK's neighbor is who took over.
Re: HK's Apple Daily raided by 500 officers over national security law
#60Earlier quoted context omitted.
> ruling establishment in China enjoy majority support We don’t know the support because anyone who dares to speak up is silenced. People are too scared to say they don’t like the government. The claim is that the CCP has 95% approval rating. But the local governments have a 10% approval rating. The local governments are The Central government. Nothing the local governments do is done without The Central governments…
I find the 95% figure hilarious, frankly. As if 95% of any population on the face of the planet could agree on anything, much less a population of over a billion. It being as high as it is tells me it's fake. Not fake as in falsified directly, but definitely fake in that the citizens opinions are manipulated via information control. The later makes perfect sense with the 10% figure for local governments. You can lie…
5% disapproval is basically the lizard man constant, aka how many people believe our politicians are actually lizards wearing human skin. So claiming 95% approval is essentially claiming 100% approval. Patently absurd. Even in the days after 9/11 when America was memorably united as one, approval of Bush hit 90% (briefly), not 95%.
It’s effectively impossible to have lasting super-high approval as a government anyway, because you’re in the business of picking winners and losers.