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For Most People, College Is a Waste of Time

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Re: For Most People, College Is a Waste of Time

#61

Post by un »

sh1mmer wrote: post #49

The most valuable part of college for me (in terms of my career prospects) was not the degree I got, although it was a good degree. The most valuable thing about college for me was the support, money, facilities that the college provided to me while I was there. They enabled me to do plenty of things I wouldn't have been able to otherwise. When I was at college I worked on plenty of OSS, created a web site for Nasa,…

What about the children of poorer families who don't have the luxury of going to college. The above would be fine if parents/students were paying the full cost of the facilities, but in most cases its government/charity subsidized.

Re: For Most People, College Is a Waste of Time

#63

Post by un »

art_wells wrote: post #14

My college degree means nothing on paper professionally, but meant everything to my abilities to meet business and computing challenges. I didn't study computing at all. I don't expect that my experience is much different from others who have Liberal Arts degrees and found joy in technology. I've worked with many people who have degrees and certification in computing and many who don't. As a result of my experience,…

Sounds pretty elitist, and your company might suffer for it.

Re: For Most People, College Is a Waste of Time

#64

Post by jraines »

menloparkbum wrote: post #52
stcredzero wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We really need that in Programming!

No, we don't. I don't want some guild or certification authority telling me I can't program for a living until I've done 2 years of "journeyman" programming and passed my licensing exams.

It seems like it would be nice as a norm, but not as a codified system with licenses and such.

Re: For Most People, College Is a Waste of Time

#65

Post by stcredzero »

menloparkbum wrote: post #52
stcredzero wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We really need that in Programming!

No, we don't. I don't want some guild or certification authority telling me I can't program for a living until I've done 2 years of "journeyman" programming and passed my licensing exams.

We don't? I've been in a lot of different programming shops as a consultant, mostly in large organizations, and let me tell you -- I don't think a lot of the people out there who are programming really should be. I've had to be the hero far too many times for shops where someone didn't realize doing something was O(n^2) and doing it another way was O(n).

The industry doesn't need to the government to penalize non-guild programmers to benefit from a guild. All the guild has to do is to show that it is effective in producing competent, knowledgeable programmers. I suspect that things like employment at Microsoft have filled this niche. (Sub-optimally.) An organization that is designed to fulfill this particular purpose would be much better at its function and more robust.

A majority of US drivers think they are above average. I have met very few under-qualified programmers who realized it.

Re: For Most People, College Is a Waste of Time

#66

Post by Alex3917 »

krschultz wrote: post #11

The problem with this plan is that it will just make every college vocational. Why waste money on classes that don't apply for your certificate? Why spend time playing with classes that could lead you to a different certificate when you are already 20% done with this one? Or better yet, why not get a couple princeton review books to pass the test? I passed 35 credits of AP exams in high school, all with 5 out of 5s,…

"The problem with this plan is that it will just make every college vocational."

The system is supposed to be separate from college. That's the whole point. That way kids who don't want to go to college can still get a good job, and colleges can be even better for those who do go because they don't have to teach job skills.

Re: For Most People, College Is a Waste of Time

#67

Post by menloparkbum »

byrneseyeview wrote: post #53
menloparkbum wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, we don't. I don't want some guild or certification authority telling me I can't program for a living until I've done 2 years of "journeyman" programming and passed my licensing exams.

Is that what Murray is advocating? The article I read suggested that using standardized tests would be a cheaper alternative than college -- but if you'd prefer four years of paying and not working to two years of getting paid to learn, you can at least enjoy the status quo.

Is that what Murray is advocating?

No, but that seemed to be what the commenter I replied to was advocating.

Re: For Most People, College Is a Waste of Time

#69

Post by arupchak »

I'm sure most of us know that good test performance does not always equal good job performance. Whenever I see a resume in front of me that has a score on a test (ie. GRE score) I almost always get disinterested in the candidate, even if the test is related to the job. I do think that these test scores can show a level of competency in showing one's ability to study/work hard for a test and do well. However, doing well on a professional test does not mean you would be good at working in that profession. I'm sure we all know people from college/school who were great at testing/studying and getting good grades but still have a hard time in non-academic environments.

College is only as useful as you want it to be. If you want to 'coast' for four years and meet/network with a lot of people, do it. If you want to study your tail off in a difficult field and try and get a good job afterward, do it. Just do not complain afterward that college did not prepare you to get a job or that college did not make enough friends for you afterward.

Re: For Most People, College Is a Waste of Time

#70

Post by stcredzero »

menloparkbum wrote: post #67
byrneseyeview wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is that what Murray is advocating? The article I read suggested that using standardized tests would be a cheaper alternative than college -- but if you'd prefer four years of paying and not working to two years of getting paid to learn, you can at least enjoy the status quo.

Is that what Murray is advocating? No, but that seemed to be what the commenter I replied to was advocating.

Too many conclusions jumped to. Though guilds have had legal backing like this historically, I don't think you need that to have some form of benefit from a "programmer's guild."

I think you could base it entirely on empirical results -- successful programming projects being the sole measure of value.

Come to think of it, Open Source projects somewhat fill this role.

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